Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

My shrink suggested I try it last year, but after a few months I discontinued use because I didn't notice an effect.

Does this adaptogen benefit anyone? What are some of the positive (and negative) changes you have experienced?

Does it matter that I was using what looked like a more generic type brand? Should I try some from a botanical vendor?

Mahalo.

There is a patented, standardized, Ashwagandha called KSM-66 .. suggest U start there. Many supplement companies sell it, Swanson, Jarrow, are two.

I take Ashwagandha at night. It definitely boosts your sleep quality... dreams! Gives you vivid, technicolor dreams. I don't take it every night & have noticed, almost every time I get into a good, long, movie type dream state... some crazy ones I'll not describe here but, it does work!!

The extract is good, never noticed much from the regular ashwagandha but its supposed to help with a lot of things. Seemed to help with me falling asleep, stress, and with the hormones. Long term kratom(+opioid) usage has definitely messed up my testosterone levels big time so anything that helps is worth taking imo.

I actually ordered some KSM-66 a couple weeks ago but haven’t taken any yet. I was meaning to ask on here if/how it interacts with Kratom. Also, is it something that is fine to take at the same time or should it be spaced out?

Forgot to mention, the other benefit... For guys... Morning Wood! Yes absolutely. You get dreams at night, horny dreams, then a boner. Even for an OLD dude like me! Pretty cool... There is something happenin' here, as the song goes. Again, I only take Ashwagandha at night ~ and I Do Not take kratom at night.

I didn't notice any difference with ashwagandha. I've tried probably 30-40 of the more popular herbs and really didn't notice anything. Kratom being a very rare exception, and curcumin which costs about twice what kratom does by weight. Curcumin seemed good for mild aches/pains and *maybe* a little extra energy, with no side effects that I noticed.

onespeedstop wrote:I didn't notice any difference with ashwagandha. I've tried probably 30-40 of the more popular herbs and really didn't notice anything. Kratom being a very rare exception, and curcumin which costs about twice what kratom does by weight. Curcumin seemed good for mild aches/pains and *maybe* a little extra energy, with no side effects that I noticed.

Have you tried kanna, akuamma, magnolia bark, blue lotus, hirsuta, javanica?

BallzDeep9 wrote:Forgot to mention, the other benefit... For guys... Morning Wood! Yes absolutely. You get dreams at night, horny dreams, then a boner. Even for an OLD dude like me! Pretty cool... There is something happenin' here, as the song goes. Again, I only take Ashwagandha at night ~ andOr I Do Not take kratom at night.

Ordered from Amazon, kinky dreams here we goooooooooo!

IndelibleDotInk wrote:Have you tried kanna, akuamma, magnolia bark, blue lotus, hirsuta, javanica?

I have had magnolia bark, didn't notice anything. Might have tried kanna and/or blue lotus back in the 90's, don't recall for sure. A friend and I ordered some "legal weed" and a couple of other things from a magazine, and I don't remember any of them doing anything except maybe giving us a headache and making us feel slightly nauseous.

Kratom is pretty subtle, and it seems to be one of the more powerful ones, as far as legal herbs go. I can't tell if Joe Rogan is trying to convince me to try dmt, or trying to scare me straight not to, but I'm guessing that one actually does something ha-ha.

DMT,the spirit molecule, is anything but subtle. Same goes for 5-MeO-DMT which is arguably even stronger. Unfortunately you would have a very hard time getting either. LSD or 1P-LSD are much easier to obtain.

TheNihilist™ wrote:DMT,the spirit molecule, is anything but subtle. Same goes for 5-MeO-DMT which is arguably even stronger. Unfortunately you would have a very hard time getting either. LSD or 1P-LSD are much easier to obtain.

I was just kidding, using dmt as the other end of the spectrum as far as extreme/not subtle chemicals.

I'm glad kratom isn't very strong, for one that keeps the price down as most folks wouldn't be impressed with it all ha-ha. And, since it isn't very strong there seems to be very little withdrawal from it, and also very mild side effects.

Ashwaganda didn't do anything for me that I could tell, and neither did any of the other 30-40 common-ish herbs that are all the rage in vitamin shops and online. Maybe they did do something, and I'll live an extra week now, but I am unaware of it, and so I did not continue buying and taking them since I observed no benefit to doing so. Hopefully they work for someone, I mean I'd hate to think that the whole billion+ dollar industry of supplements is a scam, but that wouldn't surprise me at all.

onespeedstop wrote: I mean I'd hate to think that the whole billion+ dollar industry of supplements is a scam, but that wouldn't surprise me at all.

heheh the #1 selling Herbal Supplement for Men is (drum roll), Saw Palmetto... right? Hype to fix your prostate, sexual health, blah blah ... well after 20 freakin' YEARS, they finally did a huge, controlled, double blind study of Saw Palmetto. The Verdict? Absolutely NO different from placebo.

Look it up on Wikipedia, was about 5+ years ago. Funny... they're still selling the crap

Well, as promised, I am not surprised. The other thing about all the herbs is that most of them need to be used raw, and often times applied to the skin or body area of concern, as far as their traditional use goes. Taking old powdered versions of them in a capsule, just isn't going to be the same - and that's *if* they did anything to start with.

Heck, look at kratom, there are the hardcore toss & wash people, the tea but only with leaves people, the just mix it in water and don't be such a baby people, and so on. Some folks save their 'fire batches' for years, while others demand only the freshest. Even with kratom there's a lot of hoodoo or let's say "mixed opinions" on how it works best, and for some folks it is too mild and they don't even notice it at all.

The thing folks forget about herbs is that the dosage that shows efficacy in trials is often multiples higher than the label suggested dosage which is low for liability reasons and because they cannot make health claims in the USA and retain unregulated status as a supplement.
Ashwaganda is a nice adaptogen, as are many others. they generally require generous dosing and need to be cycled frequently or you develop tolerance.
Icve had some minor benefits from forms of ashwaganda, pronounced but very short lived benefits from rhodiola, lions mane and many others.
I grow tolerance very quickly so I'm usually cycling maybe a dozen that have been effective for me.
Also, a lot of what is being sold especially on Amazon is junk (the wrong strain of the plant for the benefit you seek to achieve, etc).
I am currently using mucuna pruriens to enhance l-dopa, huperzine A (seems to help focus) and a lot of NAC (I started taking it because of the psychological and antioxidant studies but it has benefitted me in lots of ways.
Anyhow, if I research more or less constantly, I usually find a supplement stack that works way better than the numerous psych and other meds I have tried, but it takes lots if tinkering. For me it is worth it as I have genetic kidney and liver disease that prevents my using pharmaceuticals safely with any regularity.
I belong to a forum called Longecity which is full of guys with advanced science degrees trying to hack their brains and live forever.
They are usually aware of any new developments in their fields and potential hazards of a given substance.
These are true science geeks who do group buys of drugs that aren't available in the west and send their purchases to labs for third party testing, whereas I am just a science fangirl.
Anyhow, take a lurk around there, you'll get a better answer.
Good luck!

brassy wrote:The thing folks forget about herbs is that the dosage that shows efficacy in trials is often multiples higher than the label suggested dosage which is low for liability reasons and because they cannot make health claims in the USA and retain unregulated status as a supplement.
Ashwaganda is a nice adaptogen, as are many others. they generally require generous dosing and need to be cycled frequently or you develop tolerance.
Icve had some minor benefits from forms of ashwaganda, pronounced but very short lived benefits from rhodiola, lions mane and many others.
I grow tolerance very quickly so I'm usually cycling maybe a dozen that have been effective for me.
Also, a lot of what is being sold especially on Amazon is junk (the wrong strain of the plant for the benefit you seek to achieve, etc).
I am currently using mucuna pruriens to enhance l-dopa, huperzine A (seems to help focus) and a lot of NAC (I started taking it because of the psychological and antioxidant studies but it has benefitted me in lots of ways.
Anyhow, if I research more or less constantly, I usually find a supplement stack that works way better than the numerous psych and other meds I have tried, but it takes lots if tinkering. For me it is worth it as I have genetic kidney and liver disease that prevents my using pharmaceuticals safely with any regularity.
I belong to a forum called Longecity which is full of guys with advanced science degrees trying to hack their brains and live forever.
They are usually aware of any new developments in their fields and potential hazards of a given substance.
These are true science geeks who do group buys of drugs that aren't available in the west and send their purchases to labs for third party testing, whereas I am just a science fangirl.
Anyhow, take a lurk around there, you'll get a better answer.
Good luck!

It’s been several years since I gave up my quest for the perfect stack, but there was a time I spent all of my free time on longecity and was taking 10-15 supplements/nootropics at a time. I wish I could say it ever panned out to anything beyond a duffle bag full of shit I don’t take anymore and a significantly thinner wallet.

BallzDeep9 wrote:Forgot to mention, the other benefit... For guys... Morning Wood! Yes absolutely. You get dreams at night, horny dreams, then a boner. Even for an OLD dude like me! Pretty cool... There is something happenin' here, as the song goes. Again, I only take Ashwagandha at night ~ and I Do Not take kratom at night.

OK Ballz, got the ksm-66 locked and loaded for tonight.

Will report back tomorrow.

vivid dreams? check!

morning wood that lasts hours? check!

hehe yes there is definitely something goin' on there! Even for an old dude like me. I have heard Ashwagandha called the "Ginseng from India", well Ginseng doesn't have that same effect... but G. seems to be more of an adaptogen, with more energy effects. I take Ginseng during the day (30 min before kratom!) .. and use Ashwagandha at night.

BallzDeep9 wrote:hehe yes there is definitely something goin' on there! Even for an old dude like me. I have heard Ashwagandha called the "Ginseng from India", well Ginseng doesn't have that same effect... but G. seems to be more of an adaptogen, with more energy effects. I take Ginseng during the day (30 min before kratom!) .. and use Ashwagandha at night.

I know you use Korean ginseng; are you using dried slices, grating the root, or what?

I don't think you're that old Ballz, lol. Older gent, maybe, but you're nowhere near elderly.

Best one i found so far that works very good for stress/depression/sleep is Rhodiola from https://www.tibetangold.com/ssl/zc/inde ... ucts_id=14

Some of the best sleeps i ever had... Even thought on page it says nothing about sleep? It does contain 18 amino acids, wich we all know its very critical for our bodys.


-----------------------------------------
Rhodiola rosea from wakingherbs https://www.wakingherbs.com/product/rho ... ght=200-gr

Is not the same, its give all day energy and you might have a hard time falling asleep. Not like the one from above. But it does help well with stress and anxiety. packed with energy even if you were sleepy, you will be sleep no more.

Can someone explain why Rhodiola from different locations have such different effects?

I am also willing to explore other brands of Rhodiola since i know its very effective but i prefer the one that leans on sleep, making you sleepy.

TheNihilist™ wrote:DMT,the spirit molecule, is anything but subtle. Same goes for 5-MeO-DMT which is arguably even stronger. Unfortunately you would have a very hard time getting either. LSD or 1P-LSD are much easier to obtain.

5-MeO-DMT is dangerous I almost died taking it I had no idea it could cause bad respiratory depression horrible experience. My friend said I was beginning to turn a pale blue color. Bad bad stuff.

mitragy9 wrote:

TheNihilist™ wrote:DMT,the spirit molecule, is anything but subtle. Same goes for 5-MeO-DMT which is arguably even stronger. Unfortunately you would have a very hard time getting either. LSD or 1P-LSD are much easier to obtain.

5-MeO-DMT is dangerous I almost died taking it I had no idea it could cause bad respiratory depression horrible experience. My friend said I was beginning to turn a pale blue color. Bad bad stuff.

According to "Jay Essex" youtuber. DMT is something you want to avoid. If you do go this route i think best way is visit a shaman in amazon and try ayahuasca retreat.

I did order Ashwagandha KSM-66, excited to see what the hype is all about.

brassy wrote: I am currently using mucuna pruriens to enhance l-dopa, huperzine A (seems to help focus) and a lot of NAC
Good luck!

What is NAC?

IndelibleDotInk wrote: What is NAC?

Nac is N-Acetyl Cysteine which is typically used in tylenol overdoses in the ER. It's been found to prevent and treat certain types of liver injury/damage, it's also been found to help with cognitive functions and I believe depression/anxiety. I only used it to prevent hangovers lol which it worked great at. You'd take around 600mg before drinking and the next day you would feel much better than normally for a bad binge drinker. Glad I don't drink anymore.

so ordered https://www.amazon.com/Full-Spectrum-KS ... hpc&sr=1-1

And took 2 caps, 600mg each/ results are extremely good. No stress or anything like that. i didnt take kratom yet, taking 30 hours break. Been 16 hours so far, feeling great, i did make a cup of coffee, i noticed these kind of things like Coffee, Guayusa, Rhodiola are the best plain things you can take to not have WDs if any from kratom. Now i have KSM-66-Ashwagandha added to the list... great stuff. (thanks to ballz)

My honest opinion everyone should have these things in their kitchen cabinet for well being.

mitragy9 wrote:

IndelibleDotInk wrote: What is NAC?

Nac is N-Acetyl Cysteine which is typically used in tylenol overdoses in the ER. It's been found to prevent and treat certain types of liver injury/damage, it's also been found to help with cognitive functions and I believe depression/anxiety. I only used it to prevent hangovers lol which it worked great at. You'd take around 600mg before drinking and the next day you would feel much better than normally for a bad binge drinker. Glad I don't drink anymore.

I'd take milk thistle capsules after hard drinking, before bed, and never had a hangover so long as I took em.

I got Physician's Choice brand ksm-66 ashwagandha and there was a sticker on the bottle for a FREE BOTTLE, just had to answer a few questions online, even shipping was free and it's not a generic brand. Just came in the mail today! Pumped.

brave777 wrote:so ordered https://www.amazon.com/Full-Spectrum-KS ... hpc&sr=1-1

And took 2 caps, 600mg each/ results are extremely good. No stress or anything like that. i didnt take kratom yet, taking 30 hours break. Been 16 hours so far, feeling great, i did make a cup of coffee, i noticed these kind of things like Coffee, Guayusa, Rhodiola are the best plain things you can take to not have WDs if any from kratom. Now i have KSM-66-Ashwagandha added to the list... great stuff. (thanks to ballz)

My honest opinion everyone should have these things in their kitchen cabinet for well being.

You just reminded me my bottle of this has still been sitting after two months. So I just took my first serving. Will check back in with my thoughts.

Brave777?

Ballz?

onestop?

Burninator?

mitragy9?

b u m p

IndelibleDotInk wrote:Brave777?

Ballz?

onestop?

Burninator?

mitragy9?

b u m p

Hi, i am here. My thoughts on Ashwagandha? I noticed when i take kratom and aswagandha i cant tell if it helps or not because kratom over powers it. I can definitely tell difference when over 20 hour break and some WD start to peak out. So i wonder if i should save it for long kratom breaks, which i think i will start doing. I been using it with kratom, and have a feeling iam wasting my Aswagandha.

Love the Avatar!

I highly recommend KSM-66 from Jarrow. Personally a big sex drive booster on my already large sex drive. Plus much more stamina just fantastic. But I think I am a little different from most, because I find it almost entirely stimulating and it does not help me sleep. Maybe relax because of its adaptogenic qualities helping with anxiety, but definitely not sleep.

But also kratom works very similarly in most of these regards for me.

brave777 wrote:

IndelibleDotInk wrote:Brave777?

Ballz?

onestop?

Burninator?

mitragy9?

b u m p

Hi, i am here. My thoughts on Ashwagandha? I noticed when i take kratom and aswagandha i cant tell if it helps or not because kratom over powers it. I can definitely tell difference when over 20 hour break and some WD start to peak out. So i wonder if i should save it for long kratom breaks, which i think i will start doing. I been using it with kratom, and have a feeling iam wasting my Aswagandha.

Love the Avatar!

Seconding this. Though I haven’t taken it after a 20+ hour break so I can’t speak on that.

Doesn’t really seem to do much for me with Kratom. I also feel kind of swindled because amazon was advertising it as KSM-66 when I purchased it, but nowhere on the bottle does it say that.

Burninator wrote:

brave777 wrote:

IndelibleDotInk wrote:Brave777?

Ballz?

onestop?

Burninator?

mitragy9?

b u m p

Hi, i am here. My thoughts on Ashwagandha? I noticed when i take kratom and aswagandha i cant tell if it helps or not because kratom over powers it. I can definitely tell difference when over 20 hour break and some WD start to peak out. So i wonder if i should save it for long kratom breaks, which i think i will start doing. I been using it with kratom, and have a feeling iam wasting my Aswagandha.

Love the Avatar!

Seconding this. Though I haven’t taken it after a 20+ hour break so I can’t speak on that.

Doesn’t really seem to do much for me with Kratom. I also feel kind of swindled because amazon was advertising it as KSM-66 when I purchased it, but nowhere on the bottle does it say that.

Return it, Amazon has a good return policy. Get the physicians' choice brand, you do an online survey and get a free bottle! Like a legit whole bottle.

Man I would but I waited a few months to even open it lol

So if ashwagandha didn't do much for me, should I still give KSM 66 a shot?

Also, any thoughts on KSM vs Sensoril?

KSM def works, i can tell difference when kratom is not taken. Lets say your cold turkey and at the point feeling worst? well if you take KSM 66 you will be able to tell the difference 100%. I know i did but with kratom i think you are wasting it, save it for kratom breaks.