Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hi there! My fiancé has been on benzos for years and has pretty severe anxiety. He needs an alternative that is not kratom, because he hates it and wont give it a chance.
Do any of you have effective alternatives to help him out?? Thank you so much, in advance.

CBD has a mild calming effect, can be used anywhere, just put drops under the tongue.

Kava, but only limited quantities cause you can get kavafied and crunked, it can be like alcohol.

Some hirsuta and javanica have a very slight mood bump.

Depending on the person and situation, but in my experience benzos can lead to a total trainwreck like being restrained on a plane ride or making crazy phone calls, or very helpful like shutting down a total panic attack and relaxing from not being able to inhale/exhale.

I always carry some ativan with me in case I get an anxiety attack, and just carrying them plays a big part in making me feel 'ok.'

It helps to get desensitized to anxiety causing situations, like I had a hard time public speaking, so I joined support groups and Toastmasters and it helped a lot.

Ms.KratomConnoisseur wrote:Hi there! My fiancé has been on benzos for years and has pretty severe anxiety. He needs an alternative that is not kratom, because he hates it and wont give it a chance.
Do any of you have effective alternatives to help him out?? Thank you so much, in advance.

I do take benzos although I try my best to keep it light.

I've tried hypnosis, meditation, bio-feedback , de-sensitization........ Then I realized that I'm a BREATH HOLDER! That's right, I hold my breath all of the time.

The keys to both bio-feedback and - especially - meditation is The Breath.

Check out Vapassana Meditation on the web. It has a bit of a learning curve because we Westerners are not accustomed to relaxing this deeply without falling asleep, . But even at just the Beginners Level, this form is very effective for anxiety. It's all about the Breath - the one thing we all share.
If you come across websites that are all 'fancy' and try to teach you Hindi, principles, all the complicated stuff, just move onto a site where it is simplified - because it should be!

CBT might help. It would probably be good to address the psychological aspect, since he's airway on benzos and won't try kratom. As mentioned above, there are other here's and such, but none that'll really be as effective as the medication.

I would go down the list and just try everything, until he finds a good combination. Therapy plus herbs.

Seeking medical guidance from a psychiatrist may be a worthwhile option. If you're against benzos or other potentially addictive substances, there are plenty of other pharmaceuticals that work that do not carry the same risk and have a very low side effect profile.

Kaitlanfutbol wrote:Seeking medical guidance from a psychiatrist may be a worthwhile option. If you're against benzos or other potentially addictive substances, there are plenty of other pharmaceuticals that work that do not carry the same risk and have a very low side effect profile.

I'm guessing he has one, since he's got the benzos in the first place. Hopefully they're trying additional therapies, too.

Just having a therapist that you can talk to every week or every other week can be beneficial. Therapists are teaching cognitive behavioral therapy or the newer dialectical behavior therapy, but sometimes just talking about it and externalizing the anxiety can be useful, if your insurance covers it, that is.

Medications only go so far and are more effective when used in conjunction with therapy (or so I've been told). But there are some decent ones that are used for other things primarily but are also used off label for anxiety, like some beta blockers. Atenolol and propranolol are typically used for blood pressure but can be useful for anxiety by lowering BP. I've talked to many folks that say they are useful for public speaking, but if you get that acute anxiety where your heart is pounding they can definitely help (but not cure.)

Just my two cents. A lot of people are distrustful of doctors and psychiatrists, sometimes rightly so, but a consultation can't hurt. Good luck

Edit: I haven't seen L-Theanine or passionflower extract mentioned yet, both of those are said to be good for anxiety.

Kaitlanfutbol wrote:... some decent ones that are used for other things primarily but are also used off label for anxiety, like some beta blockers. Atenolol and propranolol are typically used for blood pressure but can be useful for anxiety by lowering BP. I've talked to many folks that say they are useful for public speaking, ...

Bingo. Reading this my 1st thought was "beta blockers". A Survey revealed good % of professional orchestra musicians take Propranolol, to steady their nerves and help with performance anxiety. Same with public speaking, absolutely - a phobia w/ symptoms of shaking, sweating, butterflies, rapid heartbeat, etc. I use off-label propranalol myself.

But he should really TRY kratom? served as a tasty cold drink, Red Bubble Tea (3-Step Prep)... seems over 90% of kratom users are doing it WRONG! Never eat raw powder kratom... If he's objecting to the idea of choking down raw powder - I agree! and completely understand. Legit complaint about kratom. Don't swallow raw coffee beans, brew a coffee drink... silly. Don't swallow raw kratom, learn 3-Step Prep to brew your kratom, the right way.

Get a beta blocker. Prepare your kratom drink. Serve him a light dose of beta blocker, along WITH a small < 2 gram serving of kratom Red Bubble cold tea. On empty stomach. Chase it down with sparkling water, or apple juice. This is an excellent combo for Anxiety!! - One more tip: Never smoke weed, or THC cannabis!! Good luck!

Gabapentin or pregablin did wonders for my anxiety but if he's already on benzodiazepines I doubt they would do much. Benzo's can also cause rebound anxiety when you become dependent on them for long periods and high doses, might be something worth looking into.

Beta blockers are WONDERFUL for anxiety. However, you can't take propanolol if you're asthmatic. I could take atenolol for a while, years, and then it started exacerbating my asthma. That was a real loss because it worked as well for me as a benzo.

Now I'm looking for something myself. I ordered some theanine today hoping that might work. My stress levels are off the charts and my doctor won't give my anything but Buspar, which I won't take. I hated how it made me feel.

herbalhippie wrote:Beta blockers are WONDERFUL for anxiety. However, you can't take propanolol if you're asthmatic. I could take atenolol for a while, years, and then it started exacerbating my asthma. That was a real loss because it worked as well for me as a benzo.

Now I'm looking for something myself. I ordered some theanine today hoping that might work. My stress levels are off the charts and my doctor won't give my anything but Buspar, which I won't take. I hated how it made me feel.

Hydroxyzine?25mg. It's an antihistimine that helps anxiety. It's especially useful for me because it also helps with the itching/hives I can sometimes get with heavy anxiety (and the Dermatomyositis).

Actually I did find an old prescription for hydroxyzine in the medicine cabinet a couple nights ago. Expired in 2018. I took one anyway because extreme anxiety. lol

herbalhippie wrote:Actually I did find an old prescription for hydroxyzine in the medicine cabinet a couple nights ago. Expired in 2018. I took one anyway because extreme anxiety. lol

Prepare to fall asleep lol hydroxyzine is sedating as hell. It's awesome with kratom though lol.

herbalhippie wrote: I took one anyway because extreme anxiety. lol

I might have to reach into my old Xanax stash, all the wild-fires burning & some friends have evacuated... serious

BallzDeep9 wrote:

herbalhippie wrote: I took one anyway because extreme anxiety. lol

I might have to reach into my old Xanax stash, all the wild-fires burning & some friends have evacuated... serious

Sorry to hear that, both cousins that left oregon to Washington to friends house all of them were told to leave again, i dont even know where they left or whats going on with them, i assume they getting a hotel somewhere safe. But smoke is everywhere! The WHOLE state??? Keep your eye out and see someone setting fire, hold them until police gets there.

https://youtu.be/ygw0IRfmqGg?t=1282

I know you hate Q but tons of reports people catching random weirdos with matches and setting stuff on fire. I understand media is pushing its the sun causing it but just keep the eyes open. see suspicious people or someone don't belong in your sub division or your block or some new faces, keep close look at them.

BallzDeep9 wrote:

herbalhippie wrote: I took one anyway because extreme anxiety. lol

I might have to reach into my old Xanax stash, all the wild-fires burning & some friends have evacuated... serious

I've been having days now and then when I'd just about give my right arm for ONE Xanax. Doc says NO. Not even 5 or 6 for the worst days. Other than that, she's a good doc.

I hope your friends are going to be ok, Ballz. That fire down there south of you guys is horrible.

News reports say smoke from the west coast is detectable in the air around Hawaii.

Also, it's our season for fires too, with dry conditions, natural fires, and crazy arsonists.

mitragy9 wrote:Gabapentin or pregablin did wonders for my anxiety but if he's already on benzodiazepines I doubt they would do much. Benzo's can also cause rebound anxiety when you become dependent on them for long periods and high doses, might be something worth looking into.

Was coming here to say the same thing... if he's been on benzos for any length of time, he may have hit tolerance and they could be causing him more anxiety. This is what happened to me and why I'm now tapering off clonazepam. My anxiety level was VERY BAD when I was on 4mg last summer. Now I'm down to <.75mg a day and my anxiety level is so much better. Then again, I've been using kratom almost every day since I started my taper.

herbalhippie wrote:

BallzDeep9 wrote:

herbalhippie wrote: I took one anyway because extreme anxiety. lol

I might have to reach into my old Xanax stash, all the wild-fires burning & some friends have evacuated... serious

I've been having days now and then when I'd just about give my right arm for ONE Xanax. Doc says NO. Not even 5 or 6 for the worst days. Other than that, she's a good doc.

hh... can I ask why you're not allowed to take Xanax? Does tea not help your anxiety?

whodatninja wrote: Was coming here to say the same thing... if he's been on benzos for any length of time, he may have hit tolerance and they could be causing him more anxiety. This is what happened to me and why I'm now tapering off clonazepam. My anxiety level was VERY BAD when I was on 4mg last summer. Now I'm down to <.75mg a day and my anxiety level is so much better. Then again, I've been using kratom almost every day since I started my taper.

Yeah benzos can be pretty rough with the rebound anxiety I've messed around with them and definitely paid a price for it. I don't think benzodiazepines should be taken long term for generalized anxiety. Everyone I've known that did this ended up in a really bad situation with even worse anxiety and a awful dependence. It also didn't help that their docs were so quick to rush to the conclusion that they must have abused them and that they need to go to rehab.

Benzos for maintenance? Hell no.

For spot treatment of full on panic attacks? Hell yes. Gotta not have an addict's mentality, though. I carry some of my normal meds with me in case I have an emergency and can't get home for regular doses, and I also stow two ativan tabs in case of debilitating panic attacks. I used to get these, where I couldn't breathe, couldn't exhale my lungs, but able to inhale - after a few minutes I made choking duck noises trying to force an exhale. Suffered from these almost nightly for a few months, then it happened at school during a test! Few years later it happened several times and I went to the ER and they gave me ativan, got some from my doc, and have used it a few times since then. Freaking lifesaver, but I am not tempted to abuse it.

So benzos yes for PRN but don't be an addict.

whodatninja wrote:
hh... can I ask why you're not allowed to take Xanax? Does tea not help your anxiety?

She's one of those prescribers that doesn't like to give anything possibly addictive. Tea helps a little but not much.

herbalhippie wrote:

whodatninja wrote:
hh... can I ask why you're not allowed to take Xanax? Does tea not help your anxiety?

She's one of those prescribers that doesn't like to give anything possibly addictive. Tea helps a little but not much.

You could maybe try something legal like phenibut which is similar to pregabalin for when you have really bad anxiety days. It worked great for my anxiety you just can't use it all the time because tolerance seems to build pretty quick and it's still addicting like benzodiazepines(not anywhere near as bad though)

No, no phenibut. There's a very cautionary tale buried in the Off Topic somewhere.

I just now got the theanine, see how that works.

herbalhippie wrote:No, no phenibut. There's a very cautionary tale buried in the Off Topic somewhere.

I just now got the theanine, see how that works.

Whoa, keep us posted! Maybe Theanine the member can chime in on this too; what does it do, just lessen anxiety?

Ballz was mentioning beta blockers, I tried prapranol? before with some success.

Desensitization works if you can find those types of situations that you can control the intensity. I did stuff like support groups where you can just sit in the background and slooooowwly ask questions or make friends, go to the movies by yourself to feel comfy in that setting, then go with friends, etc. Actually I escaped to the movies and it would be my haven for two hours, just had to watch uplifting shows, and the occasional old ultra violence like john wick, lol. LOL but serious.

I took a theanine earlier and then laid down to try to nap for a while. Nope. Got a lot of stressful family stuff going on today.

I'm looking forward to trying it when something really sets me off, see how or if it works.

I'd recommend CBD and meditation/mindfulness stuff. There are apps you can get for your phone that do guided meditation to get you started learning about mindfulness.

A friend that's in the cannabis industry told me to full "access" the CBD you need at least a tiny bit of THC too. So if it's legal, get something that has a little THC too - you'll find most edible companies make something that's like 80/20 CBD/THC or 90/10.

Finch wrote:I'd recommend CBD and meditation/mindfulness stuff. There are apps you can get for your phone that do guided meditation to get you started learning about mindfulness.

A friend that's in the cannabis industry told me to full "access" the CBD you need at least a tiny bit of THC too. So if it's legal, get something that has a little THC too - you'll find most edible companies make something that's like 80/20 CBD/THC or 90/10.

If it's under .3% thc its legal by federal law and considered hemp I recommend 3chi for cbd they sell awesome full spectrum tinctures/cbd/cbn/delta8-thc products. Probably the best cbd products I have ever used other companies products didn't do much of anything.

THC can cause anxiety in people, though, so if you are one to react, don't use thc mj

IndelibleDotInk wrote:THC can cause anxiety in people, though, so if you are one to react, don't use thc mj

This would be me.

IndelibleDotInk wrote:THC can cause anxiety in people, though, so if you are one to react, don't use thc mj

delta8thc has no anxiety like regular delta9thc, I have the same issue and delta8 works great for me no paranoid thoughts, heart racing, mind racing. Sadly it's about to be banned by the DEA in late October so if you're thinking about ordering I would do it soon.

They gotta a just wean off directly because nothing will get better with any of this stuff listed till they off the benzos about 7-9 days then anxiety should be mostly gone

Magnolia Bark Extract. I bought a bag from Amazon a while back and while perusing the website of Fused Flora I saw that they had an excellent price on it.

Scroll down to where GABAA modulation is mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honokiol#Pharmacology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnolia_officinalis

herbalhippie wrote:I've been having days now and then when I'd just about give my right arm for ONE Xanax. Doc says NO. Not even 5 or 6 for the worst days. Other than that, she's a good doc.

I hope your friends are going to be ok, Ballz. That fire down there south of you guys is horrible.

You can always see a new doctor. It might be worth it. Giving you a few pills occasionally is very low risk.

I 100% agree IndelibleDotInk. Benzos are incredibly valuable when used appropriately - as needed, not every day. I use them about twice a week and it's greatly improved my quality of life.

I use beta blockers, magnesium, CBD, and theanine (with caffeine) on a more regular basis.

My anxiety was causing some unpleasant symptoms and they were getting worse so I got an appointment with a counselor that comes in a couple times a week at the same clinic where my PCP is.

I saw her on Wednesday, told her what's been going on the last few months and how it's been affecting me. She asked "Have you asked for medication?" I guess it sounded that bad to her. I mentioned I'd asked my PCP for a few Ativan or something for the worst panic attacks and was denied. We talked over some possibilities and I told her I wanted to try atenolol again. She went out and talked to my PCP (who STILL won't give me a few Ativan) and she ok'd the atenolol but I was to quit taking it if it bothered my breathing again.

I'm on day two and no problems thus far, and I feel a LOT calmer. Haven't been tested yet with stressful news, but I do feel better.

Beta blockers really are amazing for anxiety, they work really well for me anyway.

In my experience, asking for certain medications never works. Especially with controlled substances, most doctors always assume the worst- drug seeking behavior. For me, I've tried many medications for anxiety so when I got prescribed a benzo (which is usually the last one they resort to, while anti-depressants like prozac or lexapro are first), my doctor and I went over each medication I've tried so far, and I'd explain how or why it didn't work, or what side effect it produced. It was a year's long process to try all of the many they prefer to prescribe instead of a benzo. I had to basically let him bring up the idea of a benzo, then agree to try it. If I had just came out and asked outright for a specific benzo, let's say Valium, I think that would throw up some red flags and he'd be even less likely to do it. He/she is the doctor after all, they probably don't appreciate recommendations by patients. It also depends very much on the psychiatrist. A general practitioner or primary care provider will not prescribe those types of medications. Now they've got me on a combination of different meds, I won't go into them here, but my regimen does include both a beta blocker and a (long acting) benzo.

I'm saying this for information's sake, and not trying to write a "how to get benzos" post.

Counselor told me my PCP does not like to prescribe benzos at all to anyone. Because they're so addictive. I don't see where 4 or 5 or 6 of them would be a problem but oh well.

I had a period of extreme anxiety back in 2008 and my then PCP gave me 10 Ativan. I think I took 4 of them and eventually threw the rest away.

Yeah, I think benzos are the next opioid. Meaning we will see a nationwide benzo crisis sometime soon the way we are seeing one with opioids now. Doctors will dramatically cut back on prescribing them and so on. This is why a lot of people take the situation into their own hands and resort to the black market, which never leads anywhere good. I would think prescribing less than a months worth of ativan, which is not commonly abused like other benzos like Xanax, would be okay, but too many other people before you have ruined it. You might have to just level with your psychiatrist, and tell them you know why she doesn't want to prescribe you a benzo, but that isn't you and you don't fit into that profile. Maybe she could start you off very small. It sucks when you know something will work but you aren't allowed because of other people's lack of responsibility. Just keep at it, do what you're supposed to do, and don't bother them every appointment about it (not saying you are doing this). If you keep having those symptoms, especially panic/anxiety attacks, at some point they may change their mind and give you a chance. For what it's worth. I'm no expert.

This thread had me thinking about some information my PCP shared with me a few years ago. He and I both have children about the same age and we were all involved in the HS band together (volunteering) as well them being on the same soccer team for a few years. Consequently, we had gotten to know one another quite well outside of the whole patient/doctor relationship. All that to say, i think that this is probably information that doctors will not typically share with patients. However, my PCP decided to share it with me and allow me to review my own records.

Basically, most of us now have a "prescription risk score" (alot like a credit score) that will provide drug prescribers with a probability of drug abuse in 3 different classes of drugs.... Sedatives/Anxiolytic, stimulants and Opioids. A number is assigned to each class of drugs based on historical use, attempts to refill/refill early, denial of refills, length of use, percentage of related visits, etc. etc.. He showed me my scores and it was pretty accurate and eye opening. My scores were low accross all three classes but the highest risk for me was for the Opioid category basically due to several major surgeries over the years and having to manage alot of pain (which required that I request refills early on several occasions as well as use several different types of pain medications). Basically, he explained to me that If you use prescription medications as directed or do not refill them until the date is well beyond the expected refill date, it will lower your risk score. Using a medication for the prescribed length of time and then not refilling them at all will also lower your risk score within that class of medications.

I thought this was interesting so I'm sharing. It may also explain why I can usually ask my PCP for any reasonable medication and get a prescription for it. Of course, doctors have to use this information in context with the patient's health history and existing conditions. It also may be why some doctors absolutely refuse to prescribe a certain class of medications regardless of symptoms or context. Changing PCPs is good advice if you are not getting the care that you need and/or the relationship between you and your PCP is lacking (no trust) or non-existent. Just my experience. It saddens me to hear that anyone is struggling with crippling anxiety or extensive pain and their PCP refuses to prescribe something that is proven to help. You can "fire" your doctor and "hire" a new one. That is how I view it.