recs for TFH greens

[Kelleytoons]

I don't think it was that complicated. We DO know that at least one of the strains tested by a lot of folks was the same strain as the Red Bali they ran out of. Because they reported a lot of us tested this it seems to indicate to me that their numbers were pretty consistent across testers (IOW, if they were truly varying numbers they wouldn't have announced that this particular number was that strain).

I think they just had at least a couple of different batches they were tested (IIRC they announced this fact at the start of testing). So some testers got some, and some got others. The testers I communicated with via PM and I agreed on many numbers we tested so it does seem like we were testing the same batch (for example - there was one green that I gave a 10 to AND identified as a red, and another tested did EXACTLY the same thing - this is pretty unlikely that we were testing completely different numbers).

As for that white not hitting - it's always possible. We've seen time and again folks talking about a particular strain that EVERYONE likes just not working for them. It's the nature of the beast.

[Arob1000]

White 649 did nothing for me as well, average kratom especially compared to everything else, shows how people's body chemistry can be very different!

[add to descartes]

Green Jongkong, Get r Green, Green Horn and Green Hulu. I ordered the Putussibau Green but haven't tried. I also want to try the Wild Green Bali. I love the Wild White Bali so hoping the Green is as good.

thanks! I have some reservations about ordering something called "git r done" green, but maybe I can get over that.

is there menu usually the same, or does it change a lot based on what they have? and do you find the ones that are 100g max to be better? I've heard it said that the ones they're low stock on are particularly good.

[Kelleytoons]

do you find the ones that are 100g max to be better? I've heard it said that the ones they're low stock on are particularly good.

I don't know if you could go by that - one of their best (the Red Bali) never got "low", it just sold out (I got the last 250 gram bag). In point of fact, I'd argue it was just the opposite - if something SLOWLY goes down to 100 grams it's probably not all that good. The absolute best stuff just gets sold out (when I was placing my order a lot of folks on these forums were touting things in July that had already disappeared by the time I could order).

[SaintsWillConquer]

Green Jongkong, Get r Green, Green Horn and Green Hulu. I ordered the Putussibau Green but haven't tried. I also want to try the Wild Green Bali. I love the Wild White Bali so hoping the Green is as good.

thanks! I have some reservations about ordering something called "git r done" green, but maybe I can get over that.

is there menu usually the same, or does it change a lot based on what they have? and do you find the ones that are 100g max to be better? I've heard it said that the ones they're low stock on are particularly good.

I held off on the Git Er Done green for the same reason. I finally broke down and ordered it after seeing quite a few positive recs on the board here. I tried it once and I was underwhelmed. I expected kind of a supergreen vibe and it wasn't that. I don't know how to describe it, but it wasn't a hit for me. As always, everyone's chemistry is different.

I would be real careful not to get caught up in the "The 100g bags must be better, everyone is buying it" trap. I'm quite sure they don't get the same amount for every strain. So some may sell out quicker simply for that reason. Plus, I always wonder how many people are behind the scenes who are loading up on certain strains. That doesn't mean those will work for everyone. I can say for myself personally, most of the times I've gotten the 100g bags they weren't this rare super strain that I had to have. Since they cost more than twice as much as split kilo bags, I would tread carefully. Just sayin'...

On a more positive note, I've never been a fan of cute strain names, but I ordered the Green Dreamz and took one dose and was blown away. Immediately took another dose which I basically never do. Ordered more that same day, which I also never do. It's actually red color and is like a euphoric daytime red for me. I really like it. I can also confirm all the positive feedback for Green Forest Borneo. It's a solid mid spec green with a pronounced sense of "well being". I imagine it would be good for those seeking relief from anxiety. It doesn't blow your head off, but I just find it to be a unique "feel good" strain.

The menu changes regularly based on what they run out of. They haven't been adding very many new strains for a while, but I imagine that's going to change soon. Some strains stick around for a long time and some go surprisingly fast. It's impossible to tell what's going to happen. It's a good idea to check the menu regularly. Hope this helps!

[terposton]

Green Jongkong, Get r Green, Green Horn and Green Hulu. I ordered the Putussibau Green but haven't tried. I also want to try the Wild Green Bali. I love the Wild White Bali so hoping the Green is as good.

thanks! I have some reservations about ordering something called "git r done" green, but maybe I can get over that.

is there menu usually the same, or does it change a lot based on what they have? and do you find the ones that are 100g max to be better? I've heard it said that the ones they're low stock on are particularly good.

The Green Borneo is a great one too. They have the best white strains around and they are my very favorite. I have every white on their menu and many that aren't on the menu anymore. Since they are a member only vendor, it gives most members a chance to try the strains before they sell out which I really like. The 100 g aren't necessary better at all. Most of them are really great. I will sometimes order 100 gram when it's new so that I can get a feel for the strain and then if I really like it, I order 250 gram or a few 250 gram bags lol. If you do like whites, there is many I can recommend.

[terposton]

do you find the ones that are 100g max to be better? I've heard it said that the ones they're low stock on are particularly good.

I don't know if you could go by that - one of their best (the Red Bali) never got "low", it just sold out (I got the last 250 gram bag). In point of fact, I'd argue it was just the opposite - if something SLOWLY goes down to 100 grams it's probably not all that good. The absolute best stuff just gets sold out (when I was placing my order a lot of folks on these forums were touting things in July that had already disappeared by the time I could order).

Not true at all. I've been a member since 2018. Some of my favorites have been on the menu for quite awhile. I think one of the reasons they are a member only is so that members have a chance to get what they want. Also, because they do extensive testing on their strains, they can get a lot of a really good batch so they could have that around for a year. TFH does things a lot different than most vendors which is why I love them so much.

[gumbyke1]

I don't think it was that complicated. We DO know that at least one of the strains tested by a lot of folks was the same strain as the Red Bali they ran out of. Because they reported a lot of us tested this it seems to indicate to me that their numbers were pretty consistent across testers (IOW, if they were truly varying numbers they wouldn't have announced that this particular number was that strain).

I think they just had at least a couple of different batches they were tested (IIRC they announced this fact at the start of testing). So some testers got some, and some got others. The testers I communicated with via PM and I agreed on many numbers we tested so it does seem like we were testing the same batch (for example - there was one green that I gave a 10 to AND identified as a red, and another tested did EXACTLY the same thing - this is pretty unlikely that we were testing completely different numbers).

As for that white not hitting - it's always possible. We've seen time and again folks talking about a particular strain that EVERYONE likes just not working for them. It's the nature of the beast.

We should have done a better job explaining how we test things - I sometimes forget that when we open testing to the community there are a lot of folks who like to guess as to what we are up to Most folks assume that we do consumer quality testing to determine what batches are menu worthy... thats a good guess, but its only part of it. It is true that consumer surveys are 100% what determines what batches appear on our menu. Thankfully we are positioned uniquely in that we do not have to offer batches to our customers that we are not proud of. We are rarely ever "stuck" with anything... if a batch doesn't perform well, we just don't procure it. This is essentially the cornerstone of our operational model, and it is a BIG part of why I got into the industry to begin with.

However, we often conduct research that is outside the scope of quality testing for "menu-worthiness ". The Red 592 is a good example of this - as many of you now know, this was actually an item that has already been on our menu for a little while now as "Top Shelf Red Bali" (and before we even launched this round of testing we were almost sold out of it). We had previously received all of the data we needed on it for it to appear on the menu, but we also wanted to see how testers compared it to other specific batches. We regularly conduct what we call "Blind Testing" in which we may test the same sample under different colors/numbers and we might even give the same sample twice to one testers. There are a variety of reasons for needing to do "blind testing" and/or put a menu item through testing again. Below are a few of the reasons.

1. We might want to compare how a previous harvest from the same location differs from after different pre-harvest manipulations or a major environmental change - giving the same tester a sample of both harvests is one way to help determine this. There are intentional techniques you can implement pre-harvest to manipulate the tree's production of secondary metabolites, but some environmental variables are NOT easy to control.... sometimes they are impossible. It can be extremely valuable to understand how a harvest from the same trees can alter by various environmental changes such as rain, drought, etc. If you cant control them, its good to understand how they affect the end product.

2. We might want to do some consumer quality testing to ensure that a new box from the same harvest is in fact "the same". Unless I am physically packing and shipping the orders from Indonesia to myself (which I'm not doing) - I don't just trust that what I am receiving is what it's supposed to be. I have some very competent partners I work with who I do trust BUT.... I am a trust but verify type of guy when things are important (like what appears on our menu). I obsess over menu construction and menu integrity - its the kind of thing that can keep me up all night if I am unsure about something. I feel a great deal of responsibility to ensure that we are not accidentally putting the same batch on the menu as two different things OR selling a different powder under the same batch code. If there is the slightest doubt in my mind, I'm going to do some rigorous testing (this was partially the reason for testing Red 592).

3. There is a great deal of bias that comes into play with how you perceive a batch (If I can find it Ill link below a post I wrote that illustrates this point). In short, the greatest determining factor on how a tester will perceive where a batch is on the "spectrum" is the color that we write on the front of the test sample. As unbelievable as that sounds, I have the empirical data to prove it. At any rate - if I want to know how you REALLY perceive a batch, I have to give you or your peers samples with a different "color" assignment. At the end of the day, there is no standardization as to what exactly a "color" is - so I try to construct my menu in a way that meets what the customer is expecting. If I have a "RED" that everyone says is high on the spectrum - it might as well be a white when I place it on the menu. However, the reality is that when conducting blind testing, there is unusually no consensus on how testers perceive a batch. Most batches tend to average out right up the middle. (if you are somebody that is "afraid" to try whites... just write the word "red" on the bag and you are good to go in most cases ). This of course does not mean that there is no such thing as a unanimously low/high spectrum batch, but they are more the exception than the rule. Whenever we have a batch that is unanimously graded one way or the other, we try to give it a name that reflects as much... that's about as much as I can do for my customers.

I could go on and on here, but I thinkg you get the idea ( I havent even touched on our research into personal chemistry profiling, but its family day so I am going to stop myself from writing any more!) In short, when we conduct consumer quality testing we are looking at a lot more than just if an item is good enough to put on the menu, there is a lot of useful data we can get from your support!

Huge thanks to everyone who participated!

[gumbyke1]

Green Jongkong, Get r Green, Green Horn and Green Hulu. I ordered the Putussibau Green but haven't tried. I also want to try the Wild Green Bali. I love the Wild White Bali so hoping the Green is as good.

thanks! I have some reservations about ordering something called "git r done" green, but maybe I can get over that.

is there menu usually the same, or does it change a lot based on what they have? and do you find the ones that are 100g max to be better? I've heard it said that the ones they're low stock on are particularly good.

Oh I wish I had more time to exapnd on this... maybe later this week I will. In short - the "100g only" designation has NOTHING to do with quality.... almost every single batch ends up with that designation before its sold out. Basically whenever we decide to menu a batch, a certain number of 100g and 250g bags gets made. Usually (but not always) the 250s sell out first, leaving the 100's only.

We would NEVER limit the purchase size of a batch based on its perceived "quality"...thats a bad practice if you ask me. If I were to sell my "good stuff" at a premium price, what does that say about the rest of the menu? We have folks from all kinds of walks in our membership and I want everyone to have equal access to a batch when its released... not just folks who have the money to "splurge on the good stuff". Besides all of that - everything that makes our menu falls within a similar narrow overall quality score, its not often that we have like one or two batches that stand out above all.

In general - I think a lot of what people "assume" about how we operate is incorrect. I cant blame folks, when you dont have much to go off of, you are kind of left to make your own conclusions. Lets take how long something stays on our menu for example. Knowing nothing about us I think most people would assume that a batch that has been on the menu forever must not be that good...after it would have sold out if it were any good... right? With us this couldn't be further from the truth! Our procurement process is unique in that we get to test batches before they going into the "normal supply chain"... we get to skim off the top so to speak. With that, if a batch tests phenomenally.... we are going to buy as much as we can. It might be more than what we know we can sell within a years time... but a great batch will eventually sell no matter how much you have. If you see something on our menu for a long time, that usually means we bought a ton of it because it was that good (Top Shelf Red/Green, 30 Year Green, Green Hangat Suma, Deep Junlge White... the list could go on). Counter intuitive yes - but I think most of our members have figured this out already If I remember Ill exapnd on how the short supply of "good" batches was something that frustrated me to no ends as a customer. I used to hate how when I would find a batch I love from a vendor that it would be sold out before I could even place another order. Becuase we control our membership, we can also control to an extent how long things are available on our menu. We intentionally try to make sure batches have "standing power" on the menu so that folks who love a particular batch have time to come back for more!

I hope that helps clear up on some of that confusion. I really would like to dive further into this when I have more time another day. But like I said in my above post, its family day Im going to go hang out on the couch with my wife now!

[Kelleytoons]

Thanks for all the info. While for most of us (those who will never participate again with you) it doesn't matter much, it's still VERY interesting to know.

I know there was one particular green that I rated a "red". When I compared notes with another tester (without first telling him) he ALSO said he had rated it as a red. I don't know what you ended up calling it (assuming you put it on the menu - I'll never know) but I'm going to guess it might end up labeled that way.

I don't pay a *ton* of information as to whether something is red/white/green - but up until I tested I hadn't had much luck with greens and yours were (mostly) outstanding. So that was interesting.

I'm still going to be forever envious of those who get to shop with you all the time, but I'll say again how very thankful I am that you let me (and others) participate in this. It was a TON of fun.

[CCB]

That is so weird, the white 649 did nothing for me this AM! Many I've rated 10 but none of mine were 500 #s, all 600s

perhaps they are running double-blind, where customer doesn't know if effective (name appearance, etc.), and tester doesn't know either.

Good point, maybe it’s a double blind experiment

[Arob1000]

If you see something on our menu for a long time, that usually means we bought a ton of it because it was that good (Top Shelf Red/Green, 30 Year Green, Green Hangat Suma, Deep Junlge White... the list could go on). Counter intuitive yes - but I think most of our members have figured this out already

This is the way...

[add to descartes]

In short - the "100g only" designation has NOTHING to do with quality.... almost every single batch ends up with that designation before its sold out. Basically whenever we decide to menu a batch, a certain number of 100g and 250g bags gets made. Usually (but not always) the 250s sell out first, leaving the 100's only.

We would NEVER limit the purchase size of a batch based on its perceived "quality"...thats a bad practice if you ask me. If I were to sell my "good stuff" at a premium price, what does that say about the rest of the menu? We have folks from all kinds of walks in our membership and I want everyone to have equal access to a batch when its released... not just folks who have the money to "splurge on the good stuff". Besides all of that - everything that makes our menu falls within a similar narrow overall quality score, its not often that we have like one or two batches that stand out above all.

oh no I wasn't implying that you would intentionally set certain strains at 100g only because they're better. I just meant that, in general, sometimes when strains are down to the 100g only mark, that can be an indication that it's particularly good, solely based on the way it's selling.

there's some vendors that have huge menus who I tend to go for the strains with limits on them, because that shows that it is selling decently, and I feel like I have a better chance at success. I don't want to take a chance on a batch that's possibly been sitting around for months or longer, for the reason that no one has liked it and recommended it. kratom is so hit or miss for me (emphasis on miss), and if word gets out on a "hot" strain, timing is key. definitely a big downside to having too big of a menu.

but thank you for clearing that up, it's nice to know a little about your process and that you set such a high bar on quality.

[Lokey]

I can't even think straight anymore, I try and do so much research of comments while making my menu selections and when I receive my package inevitably feel I ordered the wrong stuff. I got Green Dreamz because I remembered it blew you away but I must've not read that it's a slow green and actually a red color, not what I like! Edit: thought I quoted whoever said that above but...oh well.

I gave too many options for substitutions and got subs for stuff that may be all out and a white sample that was one of my test samples that I rated lower than all the other whites. I did get the Green 525 and Green Forest Borneo so I'm hopeful for those. I didn't get the yellow I wanted except one I just guessed on and hope it's not oxidized because I made it clear no red or brown kratom please! It's just too mind boggling trying to select what you want when you have no idea what your choices are other than names but just didn't want to lose the chance to order. Unfortunately I have so much stress right now and kratom is what's helping me function but barely.
I opened the 24K Bali Especial yellow and it's not brown and my Green Dreamz is not red, it's green, thank goodness.
I get this feeling with a lot of my orders when I get them, I think I ordered something different than I did because so often I read the descriptions of everything so many times then make my choices and inbetween placing the order and receiving it I forget what I actually ordered. Rambling now...