Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hello, I have been using kratom for about 6 years. The first 5 years I was using about 24-30g a day. and the last year I used between 14-18g a day. About a year ago I started using phenibut once or twice a week, I then (stupidly) started using phenibut everyday climbing to 4g a day. I attempted one cold turkey quit of phenibut (don't attempt to do this) it failed and so I began my journey of tapering my phenibut dosage by 100mg every couple of days. Two months ago I decided to start tapering my kratom dosage of 14-18g a day to about 4g a day. 12 days ago I quit kratom (at this time my phenibut dosage was at 500mg a day) 6 days ago my phenibut dose was 200mg I decided to jump off phenibut at this time.

Quitting phenibut sucks , and is about 100x worse than quitting kratom. I felt quite bad the past month due to my phenibut taper, the only noticable kratom withdrawal was diarrhea, and a stuffy/running nose for 3-4 days. I have now been free from phenibut for 5 days, luckily I have gabapentin prescribed to help with the WD. Today I decided to take kratom again to help with my phenibut WD's, I am shocked by the difference a 12 day T break makes, 2g of red Bali hit me quite hard (itchy,and a warm calm feeling just like my first time taking kratom)

I intend on taking kratom for the next 5-7 days and then I will stop to get a clearer idea of how my phenibut quit is coming. My advice to everyone is to avoid phenibut it's just not worth it, and to take regular tolerance breaks with kratom. The WD's from kratom aren't that bad (in my case) and it's nice not stuffing my face with 14-30g of ground up plant material every day.

Here are some things I took to ease both withdrawals:
Chamomile tea, l theanine, lemon balm extract, magnolia bark extract, magnesium glycinate, zinc, taurine, oleamide.

I'm prescribed propranolol for anxiety and I have been prescribed gabapentin for restless leg syndrome for a few years (it would lose its potency after 4-6 months so I have been taking regular tolerance breaks over the past couple of years, I told my doc about my phenibut taper plan months ago and he was kind enough to give me a larger supply to ease the phenibut withdrawal)

These supplements should help folks that are dealing with kratom withdrawals or those that intend on taking a T break in the future.

My future plans are to taper my gabapentin dose from 2400mg a day starting on day 15 (from last phenibut dose) by knocking off 300mg every couple of days until I'm at 900mg a day then a slower taper until I'm off of it. I'm not sure if I intend on using kratom long term once my phenibut withdrawals are dealt with. But if I do I intend on taking a 5 to 10day T break every 30days of use.

The one withdrawal related tip I could give to users of phenibut or kratom is to stay busy while going through withdrawal, during my kratom quit 12 days ago I forced myself to do chores, clean, pull weeds or at the very least just sit outside and soak up some sunlight for a while. It really helped, that being said my first three days off phenibut I didn't do anything I felt so bad and my anxiety was crazy. But withdrawals are only temporary and I began to feel slightly better day 4.

Once again if you are addicted to phenibut DO NOT QUIT cold turkey it could lead to seizures, it's not safe. Taper down low and once you get off a low dose there's very little risk of major medical problems so do your best to tough out the first couple days.

If you suffer worse kratom withdrawals than I do my advice would be to stock up on some of the above supplements (make sure you check if any medication you take interacts with the above supplements) and try to tough out the first 3 days after the 3 day mark you should start to feel physically better. For the mental aspect I think sunlight and exercise is the best cure for lingering mental effects of withdrawal.

Thanks for your time and stay away from phenibut, it's just not worth it.

I'm so glad you got off phenibut, that stuff is the devil.

Best wishes on your healing and I'm glad you found us.

herbalhippie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:18 pm I'm so glad you got off phenibut, that stuff is the devil.

Best wishes on your healing and I'm glad you found us.

Thank you, and I agree phenibut is the devil. I don't have any real experience with quitting hard drugs, my previous withdrawal experience is limited to gabapentin ( it was pretty minor with a rapid taper). The first couple days off phenibut I was pretty worried I was experiencing some sort of psychosis, I felt like bugs or something were climbing around under my skin and I kept seeing things moving out of the corner of my eye I was also having several panic attacks a day. Day 4 I felt less crazy just really anxious and unable to eat much, today (day 5) I'm still quite anxious but I was able to eat and do chores around the house.

I'm pretty fortunate because I was able to take the whole month of July off from work, I'm not sure I would've been able to manage getting off phenibut and working.

Kraphenwithdrawal wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:12 pm ... Luckily I have gabapentin prescribed to help with the WD. Today I decided to take kratom again to help with my phenibut WD's, I am shocked by the difference a 12 day T break makes, 2g of red Bali hit me quite hard (itchy, and a warm calm feeling just like my first time taking kratom)

hey welcome to MM, what a GREAT post! Thanks for taking the time here. Many people can find help, by reading this.

First it's nice to read, about someone's T Break - AFTER they have finished the Break - How they did it ? What helped, and plans for the future... We get LOTS of posts here about, uh "I am thinking about a break"... I Know I need a break... etc. Then they disappear and we never find out ? What ever happened to that guy... ??

I've written about breaks in the past. Haven't needed one really the past year... Keep my GPD nice and low - Around 5 to 8 gpd. Less Is More... always gotta say that, for the noobies & lurkers reading, lol... So... LISTEN up everyone. This guy is getting great effects now, @ 2 Grams. That's the - Recommended Serving for kratom, for non drug addicts. 2 Grams! Kratom has GOOD effects at 2 grams and some people, only need 1 gram.

Opioid Addicts, those with long history of Drug Abuse - may START out with a higher Tolerance. So they need more... But the GOAL should be... Lower that Tolerance!! Why ?? Because you get stronger effects... High Tolerance = Low Effects. (and worse crappy Side Effects!) - I've been there - was pushing 20 gpd for a couple of years, and, just like you - Took breaks, then discovered - WOW - Kratom feels better!! @ only around 2+ grams.

This isn't about "shaming" anyone. I'm not "calling" anyone out... Just pointing out, here's more evidence - 2 grams is Standard. OK some people need 3-4 grams ? But compare this to anything. Alcohol. I have a friend, who's an Alcoholic - he can, and does, down a whole Fifth of Vodka - and does that for many days straight. He's absolutely pickled - Vodka goes right through his skin. He smells like vomit (Ever known a serious Alcoholic) - and other nasty Side Effects of his Alcohol abuse.

Kratom ain't booze - HUGE doses of Kratom won't kill you like booze - But, there are some nasty Side Effects which, get worse over time... Withdrawal feeling of being wiped out - I just got to where, fuck this, I don't wanna go through every DAY - feeling shitty except for 30 min after my Kratom dose? So... yeah. Balancing Act. Food and Sleep are most important. Personally - I can enjoy a Extract shot, few times a week... also have Phenibut - just no desire to DO that very often. It's great for Sleep! Thanks again.

For Phenibut recovery some recommend Agmatine and Fasoracetam.

For help with any lingering anxiety Kava-Kava, Lemon Balm, Magnolia Root extract, Valerian Root extract, Passion Flower extract, and CBD, might help. Ashwagandha too. I see that you had good results with some of these.

But given how far along you are in recovering from overdoing it with Phenibut, you're probably best off ignoring the rest of the above. The hard part is behind you, and simply applying the 100% effective, tried and true, method of totally abstaining from Phenibut for several months, you should be fine.

I mentioned what I did for anyone who stumbles on this thread, and is looking for a lifeline.

P.S. This is funny, while checking out some links I stumbled on talk of Lactobacillus Rhamnosus, which is in (though in small quantity) a probiotic I've had good results with, but am currently out of. Yadda yadda yadda, it sounded so positive I ordered the Swanson version of it at Amazon.

I read several mentions of the following link being a bible of information for tapering off.

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Congratulations and thanks for the informative post. I'm so glad I never heard of or tried phenibut in the past because your description reminds me of my coke addiction and I can't believe it's sold with other supposedly safe botanicals. I don't believe I could take it safely.

if you're taking 2400mg of gabapentin a day to come off phenibut, you're just exchanging one withdrawal for another. taking that much gaba, you're not really in true phenibut withdrawal, since they are both very similar drugs. 2400mg is more than enough to cover for the lack of phenibut, especially since you've been off of it for almost a week.

Is that stuff worth all of that? I always assumed it was similar to gaba, like if you take a gaba trip amount. Six thousand mg. or so.

mivanqua wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:24 pm Is that stuff worth all of that? I always assumed it was similar to gaba, like if you take a gaba trip amount. Six thousand mg. or so.

you don't "trip" off of gabapentin, per se. phenibut and gaba have cross tolerance, but they aren't that similar in effects. there is a dose equivalency in terms of cross tolerance (the amount is debatable, but I'd say phenibut is 4-5x more potent, roughly) but a lot of gabapentin doesn't equal a little phenibut.

I have definitely been known to trip on gaba back in the day. Gaba is also a great painkiller. Doesn't get enough credit, but nerve pain? Wins every.time

mivanqua wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:36 pm I have definitely been known to trip on gaba back in the day. Gaba is also a great painkiller. Doesn't get enough credit, but nerve pain? Wins every.time

calling it a "trip" is a little misleading. it is nothing like any hallucinogen or psychedelic. I suppose you're using the word trip pretty loosely. I am prescribed it for anxiety, but it's also great as a mood lifter/antidepressant. it's very versatile. besides pain and anxiety, it's also a good sleep aid in low doses.

add to descartes wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:26 am

mivanqua wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:36 pm I have definitely been known to trip on gaba back in the day. Gaba is also a great painkiller. Doesn't get enough credit, but nerve pain? Wins every.time

calling it a "trip" is a little misleading. it is nothing like any hallucinogen or psychedelic. I suppose you're using the word trip pretty loosely. I am prescribed it for anxiety, but it's also great as a mood lifter/antidepressant. it's very versatile. besides pain and anxiety, it's also a good sleep aid in low doses.

The trick is gabapentin doesn’t absorb well. If you take like 100mg every 30 minutes for a few hours, you’ll eventually be blasted. It is obviously not a full blown trip, but it has some unique effects. Maybe would consider it more of a “roll” like feeling, but it is def more psychedelic than your typical anxiety drug. More of a visual, music appreciation, not so much ego death kinda thing

Cuttlefish wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:07 am

add to descartes wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:26 am

mivanqua wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:36 pm I have definitely been known to trip on gaba back in the day. Gaba is also a great painkiller. Doesn't get enough credit, but nerve pain? Wins every.time

calling it a "trip" is a little misleading. it is nothing like any hallucinogen or psychedelic. I suppose you're using the word trip pretty loosely. I am prescribed it for anxiety, but it's also great as a mood lifter/antidepressant. it's very versatile. besides pain and anxiety, it's also a good sleep aid in low doses.

The trick is gabapentin doesn’t absorb well. If you take like 100mg every 30 minutes for a few hours, you’ll eventually be blasted. It is obviously not a full blown trip, but it has some unique effects. Maybe would consider it more of a “roll” like feeling, but it is def more psychedelic than your typical anxiety drug. More of a visual, music appreciation, not so much ego death kinda thing

this is true, i would recommend 300mg every half hour, 100mg pills aren't that common afaik. the important thing is to spread it out. it takes several hours for it to "peak" anyway. I more or less take it as prescribed now, I haven't tried to take a huge amount in a really long time. tolerance rapidly rises too, and you have to take at least a week off to reset.

I could see it being compared to a roll more easily than a trip, but it's still distinctive from either. it's hard to explain, you kinda just have to experience it for yourself to know. I get more of a stimulant effect from it than anything, but without any of the anxiety of actual stims.