Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Anyone have good experiences with recent TFH greens? Fast, slow, med, if it has good mood boost, I'ma seek it out.

Mahalo!

Its been on the menu for a while so you probably had it, but I really love the top shelf green md. Also I asked this question a few weeks ago and I had 4 people recommend the green forest borneo and it did not disappoint.

froggy33 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:37 pm Its been on the menu for a while so you probably had it, but I really love the top shelf green md. Also I asked this question a few weeks ago and I had 4 people recommend the green forest borneo and it did not disappoint.

I actually haven't ordered for a looooooong time, subsisting on samplers and not finding anything excellent. So I wakeup and I'm like 'I need some TFH,' browsing, there are so many batches, getting googlified. I have had the top shelf green md with mediocre results, but only 1 run. My room looks like a ziploc bag bomb went off, I am getting ready to organize my stash, so ziplocs and plymores everywhere. I will have to find that top shelf and give it a go.

green forest borneo, ok.

maybe one more? Mahalo froggy and DoubleM fam!

Definitely the new wild green Hulu Kapuas. Nice uplifting, energetic green. Pairs well with the green forest Borneo and the top shelf GMD.

I also might add the Wild Green JongKong. Gorgeous green with happy written all over it.


Mahalo Mike!

Def suggest the green forest Borneo, good as a stand alone but I like to blend with the afterburner Bali.

I like these threads specific to TFH, it’s quite a menu and I always check here for reviews before putting in an order

elbandito88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:24 pm Definitely the new wild green Hulu Kapuas. Nice uplifting, energetic green. Pairs well with the green forest Borneo and the top shelf GMD.

I also might add the Wild Green JongKong. Gorgeous green with happy written all over it.


Mahalo Mike!

I'm usually a TFH white user but I was just about to recommend these same two. They are fantastic and happy is a great word for both of them.

Im curious, new forum member here, have heard of TFH but as it is private I have never tried their product. Curious how it compares to other quality vendors? Do they have open events?

Has anyone ordered the Green Dreamz: SH-213 yet?

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 pm Im curious, new forum member here, have heard of TFH but as it is private I have never tried their product. Curious how it compares to other quality vendors? Do they have open events?

Apparently once upon a time they DID have open events, but their normal times for those have come and gone with no new ones. Your best bet is twofold:

1) Watch the forum. If there IS one it will be posted here.
2) Buy some from folks on the trading post.

I was lucky enough to try some TFH and - well, I have to say I was underwhelmed. BUT - that was only one sample and it was only me. It's VERY hard to judge Kratom based on any one person's reviews and TFH, as a whole, has gotten nothing but very positive ones. Once upon a time I was very sad I would never be a member, but now I'm feeling like there are plenty of other quality vendors out there so if you can't get some of their (probably) wonderful leaf you can get others.

SaintsWillConquer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:23 am Has anyone ordered the Green Dreamz: SH-213 yet?

I was close to grabbing this one in my last order..said it was on the slower side and I’m starting a new job so I need all the oomph I can get.. would love to hear peoples experience with this one

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:05 am

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 pm Im curious, new forum member here, have heard of TFH but as it is private I have never tried their product. Curious how it compares to other quality vendors? Do they have open events?

Apparently once upon a time they DID have open events, but their normal times for those have come and gone with no new ones. Your best bet is twofold:

1) Watch the forum. If there IS one it will be posted here.
2) Buy some from folks on the trading post.

I was lucky enough to try some TFH and - well, I have to say I was underwhelmed. BUT - that was only one sample and it was only me. It's VERY hard to judge Kratom based on any one person's reviews and TFH, as a whole, has gotten nothing but very positive ones. Once upon a time I was very sad I would never be a member, but now I'm feeling like there are plenty of other quality vendors out there so if you can't get some of their (probably) wonderful leaf you can get others.

For sure, its kratom only gets so good, plenty vendors out there with great connections and product. I do respect being selective and limiting stock to better serve. I dont fall for the forbidden fruit/chosen ones hype. Not to imply any private vendors driving that narrative, mostly community driven.

There are some EXCELLENT vendors who do not have membership requirements - I would try Okie, Sakti and Treasure House for sure.

Order alot from okies, havent tried sakti though and hear them mentioned now and again.

i ordered from okies once due to the hype machine, still evaluating it.

Never heard of sakti at all before this recent wave of hot this, hot that.

Treasure House Botanicals is good, very good. Along with a lot of vendors, i would order from them to increase and bring variety to my stash, but money and space prohibit.

Love to DoubleM.

I usually order the most whites and I think I've only tried 2 or 3 of the greens but I've gotten git er done green on multiple occasions. Problably cause it kind of acts like a white. As the name implies it's pretty "fast."

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:22 pm
For sure, its kratom only gets so good, - plenty vendors out there with great connections and product. I do respect being selective and limiting stock to better serve. I dont fall for the forbidden fruit/ chosen ones hype. Not to imply any private vendors driving that narrative, mostly community driven.

Good post, welcome to MM - yes the community drives hype, its maybe a combo of not understanding kratom, not doing research, being a noob to the game, whatever... We all Love kratom when starting out, the Honeymoon and then seems like, a never ending supply of "strains", wild claims about magical vendors & fellow seekers doing Fiii-yahh reviews and then, the fiiyah we bought last week isn't good enough ? there must be some Holy grail out there ? Fomo kicks in & becomes a never ending search for pleasure... and then, a year ? two years ? Later the guy just disappears, lol or figures out there IS a Limit to Plain Leaf, and after all... Kratom is kratom.

It's a great time, to source kratom from Small Batch vendors! TFH is unique, still doing a few things that NO other vendor does, well, anyway.

froggy33 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:37 pm Its been on the menu for a while so you probably had it, but I really love the top shelf green md. Also I asked this question a few weeks ago and I had 4 people recommend the green forest borneo and it did not disappoint.

Good to hear! I have a fresh 100g bag of top shelf green MD waiting to be opened and tried. I'm trying it first as soon as my tolerance break is done

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:14 pm

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:22 pm
For sure, its kratom only gets so good, - plenty vendors out there with great connections and product. I do respect being selective and limiting stock to better serve. I dont fall for the forbidden fruit/ chosen ones hype. Not to imply any private vendors driving that narrative, mostly community driven.

Good post, welcome to MM - yes the community drives hype, its maybe a combo of not understanding kratom, not doing research, being a noob to the game, whatever... We all Love kratom when starting out, the Honeymoon and then seems like, a never ending supply of "strains", wild claims about magical vendors & fellow seekers doing Fiii-yahh reviews and then, the fiiyah we bought last week isn't good enough ? there must be some Holy grail out there ? Fomo kicks in & becomes a never ending search for pleasure... and then, a year ? two years ? Later the guy just disappears, lol or figures out there IS a Limit to Plain Leaf, and after all... Kratom is kratom.

It's a great time, to source kratom from Small Batch vendors! TFH is unique, still doing a few things that NO other vendor does, well, anyway.

True story, TFH gets respect from me for their testing efforts to garner feedback even if theres a marketing element at play. I have never tried em, so cant speak from experience, but im sure they are high quality.

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:24 pm

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:14 pm

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:22 pm
For sure, its kratom only gets so good, - plenty vendors out there with great connections and product. I do respect being selective and limiting stock to better serve. I dont fall for the forbidden fruit/ chosen ones hype. Not to imply any private vendors driving that narrative, mostly community driven.

Good post, welcome to MM - yes the community drives hype, its maybe a combo of not understanding kratom, not doing research, being a noob to the game, whatever... We all Love kratom when starting out, the Honeymoon and then seems like, a never ending supply of "strains", wild claims about magical vendors & fellow seekers doing Fiii-yahh reviews and then, the fiiyah we bought last week isn't good enough ? there must be some Holy grail out there ? Fomo kicks in & becomes a never ending search for pleasure... and then, a year ? two years ? Later the guy just disappears, lol or figures out there IS a Limit to Plain Leaf, and after all... Kratom is kratom.

It's a great time, to source kratom from Small Batch vendors! TFH is unique, still doing a few things that NO other vendor does, well, anyway.

True story, TFH gets respect from me for their testing efforts to garner feedback even if theres a marketing element at play. I have never tried em, so cant speak from experience, but im sure they are high quality.

TFH is clear, strong, and clean compared to many vendors' kratom. Are they the most powerful kratom in earth? not all batches. But can you depend on them to provide good kratom with good customer service (they care) and a ton of love of how they are making kratom greater than before. When you buy from TFH, you are supporting the next step into quality kratom.

Yes, this.

Plus - after having tested 11 samples of their upcoming wares, I can honestly say some of it WAS the best I've ever had (and I've tried hundreds of strains - still not as many as a lot of you, but just sayin'). I have one or two in my collection that is as good, but the batting ratio of this test was such that I am a true believer (just not ever a member - which, considering my bank account, is probably a Good Thing).

Very cool, and great to know. So nice to hear their heads and hearts are in the right place. Raise that bar!

Respect their decision to remain private and right sized, but selfishly sure be nice to try em out. I do like the vendor options these days if ur willing to stay plugged in.

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:22 pm
For sure, its kratom only gets so good, plenty vendors out there with great connections and product. I do respect being selective and limiting stock to better serve. I dont fall for the forbidden fruit/chosen ones hype. Not to imply any private vendors driving that narrative, mostly community driven.

I disagree with the part about "kratom only gets so good". Agreed that there are soooo many variables in the person, and the batch, etc, that it's hard to nail down. And yes, there are plenty of vendors out there with great product.

However, from what I have read of Chris' posts (check em out) I believe part of the mission of TFH as I gather it, is to find that ultimate quality. I don't know about "forbidden fruit" but... The very best there is, and from so many aspects. The detail and tenacity and time and money that goes into their product is exemplary from what I can tell so far. I've lurked this forum and reddit for a long time but haven't posted until recently. He also mentioned something (paraphrasing) that TFH, with data they're collecting, may be able to pick your strains/batches for you better that YOU can. Hah! Who goes that far? TFH does.

Maybe I'm getting expansive here, but when you work that elaborately and you love the product and what you do as much as they do, it shows. I've read a lot and tried a lot. For what TFH is, it stands for precisely the counterpoint to "kratom only gets so good," ie, even the best vendors only vary a little. No.

Why not go all in, when and if you can find that kind of source/dedication?

Lastly, and I apologize if this sounds preachy or rehashing/beating a dead horse but, I've had shitty kratom, and average kratom, and above average kratom. Why not pursue the best?

IndelibleDotInk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:53 am

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:24 pm

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:14 pm
Good post, welcome to MM - yes the community drives hype, its maybe a combo of not understanding kratom, not doing research, being a noob to the game, whatever... We all Love kratom when starting out, the Honeymoon and then seems like, a never ending supply of "strains", wild claims about magical vendors & fellow seekers doing Fiii-yahh reviews and then, the fiiyah we bought last week isn't good enough ? there must be some Holy grail out there ? Fomo kicks in & becomes a never ending search for pleasure... and then, a year ? two years ? Later the guy just disappears, lol or figures out there IS a Limit to Plain Leaf, and after all... Kratom is kratom.

It's a great time, to source kratom from Small Batch vendors! TFH is unique, still doing a few things that NO other vendor does, well, anyway.

True story, TFH gets respect from me for their testing efforts to garner feedback even if theres a marketing element at play. I have never tried em, so cant speak from experience, but im sure they are high quality.

TFH is clear, strong, and clean compared to many vendors' kratom. Are they the most powerful kratom in earth? not all batches. But can you depend on them to provide good kratom with good customer service (they care) and a ton of love of how they are making kratom greater than before. When you buy from TFH, you are supporting the next step into quality kratom.

You are so right about TFH. Describing their strains as clear, strong and clean is the perfect description. I know they say to rotate vendors and I do to a point. But, I have to say I use TFH every other day and I don't have a tolerence issue. Some of my favorites I use a couple of times a week. There are some on this forum that say they rotate so much that they go 6 or 7 weeks using a different strain which is crazy to me. I don't know how you could even evaluate a vendor or strain doing that. Sometimes I need to use a strain a couple of times close together to get a feel for it but I digress lol. Anyway, TFH is just a great vendor who really cares about their customers and takes strides to make Kratom better. Even the bags they use are top notch. The Green Hulu, Green JongKong and Green Borneo are really good right along with all the whites on the menu.

terposton wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pm There are some on this forum that say they rotate so much that they go 6 or 7 weeks using a different strain which is crazy to me. I don't know how you could even evaluate a vendor or strain doing that. Sometimes I need to use a strain a couple of times close together to get a feel for it

Hey, I resemble that remark.

But all seriousness aside, since you question, let me say. My six week rotation (shortly to become eight week when my TFH order arrives) is managed pretty well. To begin with, all of the stuff in the current rotation has been well vetted - I've taken them many times AND journaled the results, even to the exact dosage (well, within 1/10 of a gram). They have STAYED in the rotation because they work and even if, now, I don't particularly remember all their names (although a few, like Liza's Happy-Go-Lucky, or Herbal's RVA Red Bali, I know so well I can reach for them to get a VERY specific mood/relief) I know they all work and, in general, how they behave (reds, green or white - if they behave different from their color I put the color they behave like on the label, color tagged so I know).

As I've gotten new/better strains they have replaced the ones not as good - recently I overhauled my entire system and took out all in my rotation from two major vendors, replaced by the smaller ones noted here on the forum. And soon (SOON!) I'll be adding a ton of TFH stuff to the rotation and it, too, will replace the two or three weak sisters that are still left. When I get something new human nature wants me to try it right away and I often do. But if it's a miss (and everything else is "normal" - good BM, no full stomach, etc.) then I'll try one or two more times to refine that. After that, if it's still a miss it goes out (I don't put anything that won't hit me after three times because, well, I have enough - my excess is vacuum sealed in my attic).

Is it overkill? Oh, most likely very much so. But trying to remove some of my favorites would be like removing one or two of your children - how do you pick? And NOT adding to it is, well, I guess it's the same as not adopting that adorable kitten that you find in the road (okay, I'm a sucker for cats but I think you can substitute whatever you love and end up getting even though you KNOW it's a Bad Idea).

And because it's all capsules, in bottles, it's very easy to manager. I even *could* (if I were totally insane - not quite there yet) mix and match capsules without a blink. In any case, it all fits on one shelf in my computer room and as I move through it (surprisingly quickly - time passes fast when you're old) I turn the bottles over I use and can track the usage without paperwork. I find it VERY easy to manager and I think most of you would as well.

(I also suspect that if I listed all that I have and asked YOU to pick which ones you'd remove you also would say - hell, no, there's nothing I'd take out. So - it is what it is).

uspatriot995 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:18 pm

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:22 pm
For sure, its kratom only gets so good, plenty vendors out there with great connections and product. I do respect being selective and limiting stock to better serve. I dont fall for the forbidden fruit/chosen ones hype. Not to imply any private vendors driving that narrative, mostly community driven.

I disagree with the part about "kratom only gets so good". Agreed that there are soooo many variables in the person, and the batch, etc, that it's hard to nail down. And yes, there are plenty of vendors out there with great product.

However, from what I have read of Chris' posts (check em out) I believe part of the mission of TFH as I gather it, is to find that ultimate quality. I don't know about "forbidden fruit" but... The very best there is, and from so many aspects. The detail and tenacity and time and money that goes into their product is exemplary from what I can tell so far. I've lurked this forum and reddit for a long time but haven't posted until recently. He also mentioned something (paraphrasing) that TFH, with data they're collecting, may be able to pick your strains/batches for you better that YOU can. Hah! Who goes that far? TFH does.

Maybe I'm getting expansive here, but when you work that elaborately and you love the product and what you do as much as they do, it shows. I've read a lot and tried a lot. For what TFH is, it stands for precisely the counterpoint to "kratom only gets so good," ie, even the best vendors only vary a little. No.

Why not go all in, when and if you can find that kind of source/dedication?

Lastly, and I apologize if this sounds preachy or rehashing/beating a dead horse but, I've had shitty kratom, and average kratom, and above average kratom. Why not pursue the best?

No worries. Well that has been my experience. I have had good/great kratom many times but for me kratom does what it does. Will it evolve naturally, i cant say but probably not. Will people tinker and create/manufacture changes increasing potency, for sure and good for TFH if they are leading edge on that research.

Like I have said, never tried em, so I have no point of reference. But when I hear “best” I stop short of crowning any one vendor. Who sells the best cucumber? Wine? Coffee? Water? So much individuality/subjectivity, what i think is best another may consider the worst.

I dont doubt their intention of evolving kratom and clearly their hearts are in it. Last thing im suggesting is that TFH is a gimmick, private vendors probably want to have a life, totally get that. Also get that around here TFH is king of the hill. Not here to dispel that notion nor argue with every fan over the merits of something I have never tried.

If they are the best for you, then they are the best.

I think if what anyone is saying when they say "kratom only gets so good" is that mit levels, etc are only so good in any strain. Which is to say no one is breeding "Super" Kratom, either in the wild or in some secret laboratory here (although, frankly, with the way movies are going I could see this as the next step. SuperK sounds pretty good to me as a hero, is all I know).

TFH DOES do things differently than any other vendor we know about, but they still don't end up with Super K. They *might*, on a whole, end up with more hits than most folks. Perhaps even than "all" folks, but even they have misses (I know - I've used some). Likewise, some vendors have hits that are better than any one out there (I still stand by one strain sold by Herbal RVA that beat anything I've tried from anyone. Even TFH).

Also I think it would be far easier for comparison if more folks could try TFH but their exclusivity works against that. It's *possible* that if everyone tried them then a consensus could be made they are king. Or it might show that the King's clothes are not perfect after all. But since that's never going to happen the best we can say is that for *some* people they are the best and for others... not so much (mostly because we can't regularly try them).

All that said, though - I would give my first born for a membership (okay, well maybe not THAT - I do love her dearly. But at the very least I know of one grandkid I'd trade in :>).

For sure, well im rooting for you to hit their raffle!

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:07 pm
No worries. Well that has been my experience. I have had good/great kratom many times but for me kratom does what it does. Will it evolve naturally, i cant say but probably not. Will people tinker and create/manufacture changes increasing potency, for sure and good for TFH if they are leading edge on that research.

Like I have said, never tried em, so I have no point of reference. But when I hear “best” I stop short of crowning any one vendor. Who sells the best cucumber? Wine? Coffee? Water? So much individuality/subjectivity, what i think is best another may consider the worst.

I dont doubt their intention of evolving kratom and clearly their hearts are in it. Last thing im suggesting is that TFH is a gimmick, private vendors probably want to have a life, totally get that. Also get that around here TFH is king of the hill. Not here to dispel that notion nor argue with every fan over the merits of something I have never tried.

If they are the best for you, then they are the best.

Yes, when you really dig in to the research, past the hype it's evident that there are a lot of subjective factors. I liked Kelley's post because he essentially explains how he makes the subjective, objective for him specifically...trying a strain/batch 3 times and if it doesn't hit, he tucks it away. That same batch may hit great for someone else. That's the issue here, subjectivity and objectivity. And I believe what TFH is doing it's best to achieve is an "as objective as can be" stock and method of testing that sustains that. For example, I'm almost done with my testing and I know several batches that absolutely stood out to me as being superior in a big way. So it's really kind of like Chris said--at some point they would theoretically be able to pick your personal batches with better accuracy than you! (paraphrasing). A person could obviously (and I think most of us do this) do this on their own, like Kelley said--test batches from different vendors and sort through the ones that hit best. What impresses me is that TFH itself, the vendor, is interested in finding the best strains/batches for us, the consumers. No one else does that to my knowledge with this kind of goal in mind in such a scientific way. Ultimately, I don't know that there will ever be one "best" vendor or strain/batch, but there could be a honing in on the chances that you'll get SLAPPIN' good product every time. Hah. Reminds me of how docs can do a DNA test to find out which meds work best for you.

Yea agree, seems like they are doing the leg-work for the end user. I really hope I hit the raffle as well, just placed a 4.1KG order and got some of the greens recommended in this post, so even if I don’t win I’ll still be stocked up for a good long while!

uspatriot995 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:04 pm

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:07 pm
No worries. Well that has been my experience. I have had good/great kratom many times but for me kratom does what it does. Will it evolve naturally, i cant say but probably not. Will people tinker and create/manufacture changes increasing potency, for sure and good for TFH if they are leading edge on that research.

Like I have said, never tried em, so I have no point of reference. But when I hear “best” I stop short of crowning any one vendor. Who sells the best cucumber? Wine? Coffee? Water? So much individuality/subjectivity, what i think is best another may consider the worst.

I dont doubt their intention of evolving kratom and clearly their hearts are in it. Last thing im suggesting is that TFH is a gimmick, private vendors probably want to have a life, totally get that. Also get that around here TFH is king of the hill. Not here to dispel that notion nor argue with every fan over the merits of something I have never tried.

If they are the best for you, then they are the best.

Yes, when you really dig in to the research, past the hype it's evident that there are a lot of subjective factors. I liked Kelley's post because he essentially explains how he makes the subjective, objective for him specifically...trying a strain/batch 3 times and if it doesn't hit, he tucks it away. That same batch may hit great for someone else. That's the issue here, subjectivity and objectivity. And I believe what TFH is doing it's best to achieve is an "as objective as can be" stock and method of testing that sustains that. For example, I'm almost done with my testing and I know several batches that absolutely stood out to me as being superior in a big way. So it's really kind of like Chris said--at some point they would theoretically be able to pick your personal batches with better accuracy than you! (paraphrasing). A person could obviously (and I think most of us do this) do this on their own, like Kelley said--test batches from different vendors and sort through the ones that hit best. What impresses me is that TFH itself, the vendor, is interested in finding the best strains/batches for us, the consumers. No one else does that to my knowledge with this kind of goal in mind in such a scientific way. Ultimately, I don't know that there will ever be one "best" vendor or strain/batch, but there could be a honing in on the chances that you'll get SLAPPIN' good product every time. Hah. Reminds me of how docs can do a DNA test to find out which meds work best for you.

Hell yeah! Here try this it suits your dna lol. Im down! As fate would have it i got my hands on 3/4 kg of TFH, 3 strains so maybe have it by end of week. Excited to try. But I gotta stop buying, its becoming kind of a problem lol.

any actual recommendations on tfh greens? I see like only 3 posts that mention them. I'm planning on placing an order pretty soon, and greens are the only kind I take.

add to descartes wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:30 am any actual recommendations on tfh greens? I see like only 3 posts that mention them. I'm planning on placing an order pretty soon, and greens are the only kind I take.

Green Jongkong, Get r Green, Green Horn and Green Hulu. I ordered the Putussibau Green but haven't tried. I also want to try the Wild Green Bali. I love the Wild White Bali so hoping the Green is as good.

If they let you order the test greens I would HIGHLY recommend 605, 611, 625 and 616.

My favorite standout was Green 525.

Yes, I mistyped - I typed 625 and it was 525.

I think he is talking about greens on the current menu. The testing numbers aren’t on the menu yet so I don’t think you can order them until they are.

Green 525, what an amazing sample! I already regret not ordering that one after testing. Did end up buying more green 611, 616, 627 and white 649, however. Between all the menu items & test samples, so hard to pick without buying everything

I bought white 649 as well. So we're pretty consistent on what works and what doesn't.

And I do think you can order these test numbers if you are a member - Chris ONLY allowing us who tested these doesn't make any sense, as he's even allowing us to order numbers we didn't test. So keeping members from doing that just doesn't sound like something TFH would do.

That is so weird, the white 649 did nothing for me this AM! Many I've rated 10 but none of mine were 500 #s, all 600s

Lokey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:36 pm That is so weird, the white 649 did nothing for me this AM! Many I've rated 10 but none of mine were 500 #s, all 600s

perhaps they are running double-blind, where customer doesn't know if effective (name appearance, etc.), and tester doesn't know either.