Anyone still ordering through DG Botanicals?

[BrainOfKrane]

He's consistently been the best vendor quality I've used. I know he used to be very active on forums /w testers but he seems to have stepped away from it. Anyone have any information?

[anonk]

Haven't ordered in about 6 months so I'd be interested if anyone has anything to recommend.

[BallzDeep9]

He's consistently been the best vendor quality I've used. I know he used to be very active on forums /w testers but he seems to have stepped away from it. Anyone have any information?

Welcome to MM - DG folded up his tent, like... 2+ years ago ? I guess he still operated on Email ? But remember his website... gone. (UPDATE: you can see the HISTORY of "DG Botanicals" website on the Wayback Machine! --> https://web.archive.org/web/20170727212 ... icals.com/

Yeah sure he DID have quality - But remember. Plain Leaf Kratom has a LIMIT on potency - You know? This idea of "Holy Grail" that 1 Vendor has a magic tree growing somewhere on the Island of Bali - that produces better kratom than the other 300+ vendors... is hogwash.

ANY vendor, who consistently sells powder - At or stronger than 2% Mitragynine ?? IS selling spiked Leaf, aka "Enhanced" kratom.

Of course 5 Years ago nobody had a Lab Test, for anything... Also - DG - ALWAYS had two different "quality" of kratom. Right ? His so-called ( Premiums ) ? He sold for double or triple the price. Yes ? And... his "Premiums" DID seem very strong. Weirdly strong. Of course his claim was, that HIS one or 2 exclusive, secret, Indo Suppliers... exported stronger leaf than anyone else's. LOL... Better than 2% Mitra ? OK. I'll spike my own, thanks... it's easily done now... and cheaper than paying his crazy $60 per 250g or whatever...

Also remember, DG started his "thing" way back in... 2015. Back then, quality Extract was NOT available online for low prices... like it is NOW.

[BookofEnoch1914]

He's consistently been the best vendor quality I've used. I know he used to be very active on forums /w testers but he seems to have stepped away from it. Anyone have any information?

Welcome to MM - DG folded up his tent, like... 2+ years ago ? I guess he still operated on Email ? But remember his website... gone. (UPDATE: you can see the HISTORY of "DG Botanicals" website on the Wayback Machine! --> https://web.archive.org/web/20170727212 ... icals.com/

Yeah sure he DID have quality - But remember. Plain Leaf Kratom has a LIMIT on potency - You know? This idea of "Holy Grail" that 1 Vendor has a magic tree growing somewhere on the Island of Bali - that produces better kratom than the other 300+ vendors... is hogwash.

ANY vendor, who consistently sells powder - At or stronger than 2% Mitragynine ?? IS selling spiked Leaf, aka "Enhanced" kratom.

Of course 5 Years ago nobody had a Lab Test, for anything... Also - DG - ALWAYS had two different "quality" of kratom. Right ? His so-called ( Premiums ) ? He sold for double or triple the price. Yes ? And... his "Premiums" DID seem very strong. Weirdly strong. Of course his claim was, that HIS one or 2 exclusive, secret, Indo Suppliers... exported stronger leaf than anyone else's. LOL... Better than 2% Mitra ? OK. I'll spike my own, thanks... it's easily done now... and cheaper than paying his crazy $60 per 250g or whatever...

Also remember, DG started his "thing" way back in... 2015. Back then, quality Extract was NOT available online for low prices... like it is NOW.

Maybe his website disappeared at some point, but it has been up and active every time I have checked over the last 9 months or so, updated with new batches regularly. Oh, and his premium strains are $45 for 125g....slightly pricey..

[BrainOfKrane]

He's consistently been the best vendor quality I've used. I know he used to be very active on forums /w testers but he seems to have stepped away from it. Anyone have any information?

Welcome to MM - DG folded up his tent, like... 2+ years ago ? I guess he still operated on Email ? But remember his website... gone. (UPDATE: you can see the HISTORY of "DG Botanicals" website on the Wayback Machine! --> https://web.archive.org/web/20170727212 ... icals.com/

Yeah sure he DID have quality - But remember. Plain Leaf Kratom has a LIMIT on potency - You know? This idea of "Holy Grail" that 1 Vendor has a magic tree growing somewhere on the Island of Bali - that produces better kratom than the other 300+ vendors... is hogwash.

ANY vendor, who consistently sells powder - At or stronger than 2% Mitragynine ?? IS selling spiked Leaf, aka "Enhanced" kratom.

Of course 5 Years ago nobody had a Lab Test, for anything... Also - DG - ALWAYS had two different "quality" of kratom. Right ? His so-called ( Premiums ) ? He sold for double or triple the price. Yes ? And... his "Premiums" DID seem very strong. Weirdly strong. Of course his claim was, that HIS one or 2 exclusive, secret, Indo Suppliers... exported stronger leaf than anyone else's. LOL... Better than 2% Mitra ? OK. I'll spike my own, thanks... it's easily done now... and cheaper than paying his crazy $60 per 250g or whatever...

Also remember, DG started his "thing" way back in... 2015. Back then, quality Extract was NOT available online for low prices... like it is NOW.

Thank you for the response. I never thought that he could be "spiking" the powder. I certainly hope not. But it's undeniable that his product had noticeably better effects than typical vendors.


His site is still up. I pinged him to see how its going and he says his super green malay is the best it's ever been. Right now I'm looking for reds to add to my rotation. He used to be my go-to vendor and I put in a largish order. Any recommendations? I wish I could order from TFF but that's not likely to happen for a long while.


To be honest his premiums didn't seem that far off from his regulars. I just assumed it was marketing or something. Anyways thanks for the info. I hope it's not true but it does raise questions I hadn't considered.

[anonk]

Thank you for the response. I never thought that he could be "spiking" the powder. I certainly hope not. But it's undeniable that his product had noticeably better effects than typical vendors.


His site is still up. I pinged him to see how its going and he says his super green malay is the best it's ever been. Right now I'm looking for reds to add to my rotation. He used to be my go-to vendor and I put in a largish order. Any recommendations? I wish I could order from TFF but that's not likely to happen for a long while.


To be honest his premiums didn't seem that far off from his regulars. I just assumed it was marketing or something. Anyways thanks for the info. I hope it's not true but it does raise questions I hadn't considered.

I've been ordering from him since 2014 I can say over that time I've never suspected spiked leaf, the premium leaf is mostly marketing. Often the regular leaf he was selling was way better than his premium.

[BallzDeep9]

Thank you for the response. I never thought that he could be "spiking" the powder. I certainly hope not. But it's undeniable that his product had noticeably better effects than typical vendors.

This is really not difficult - You START with two choices:

Choice #1 - All of DG's Leaf, including Premiums, are Plain Leaf kratom. Nothing added. All natural! - Which is what he's always claimed. OK then - Natural Kratom powder has a Maximum of 2% Mitragynine - that's just a proven FACT. It's been studied. Nobody CAN possibly have "Natural" kratom over that LIMIT... Kratom IS a Normal Distribution. A bell curve.

In that case, WHY would anyone PAY his crazy prices ?? When some vendors SELL, Top Quality kratom around 2% Mitra - WITH actuall Proof! (Lab Tests) for... well Vendor A, sells ALL their leaf for .10 cents per Gram. That's per 250g, Quarter kilo bags... DG sells, What ?? - $45 for only 125 gram - you're paying MORE than 3X... or DG is giving you only 1/3 as much Leaf... Why support a vendor who rips you off ?? Same question for Happy Hippo ?

Choice #2 - Some of DG's Leaf, the "Premium" IS in fact - NOT natural kratom... It's actually stronger than Plain Leaf ? It's spiked AT the source. So... DG CAN claim "No Knowledge" of any enhancement. That's called Plausible Deniability - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability -- IT goes something like this. DG waves his Big American Dollars around Indonesia "I will pay Big Bucks for the strongest Kratom" NO Questions Asked.

He contacts 20 Indo suppliers. A couple of them, spike the leaf with Extract and it's definitely stronger - Supply is Limited - DG Imports the enhanced stuff and, for 6 YEARS has sold the enhanced stuff - NO Lab Tests - NO Questions Asked - and his prices, indicate he's paying Top Dollar, and prices are what you'd EXPECT to pay for Enhanced Kratom...

FIVE years ago, almost nobody Lab Tested potency - FIVE years ago, nobody had studied the Mitragynine content of Kratom! But... this is 2022.

[Kelleytoons]

Of course there's always a #3 (or perhaps an offshoot of #2): DG IS ignorant of what happens.

I could see that, particularly if it was early on in the kratom game. He is told by some buyers they have "the good stuff" but it will cost, and he buys and it IS the good stuff, except it's spiked. He passes the cost on to the consumer but he doesn't so much "deny" it's spiked as he just doesn't understand it could be.

We used to call this "divine ignorance" - meaning you're so far out of the loop that you believe your word IS THE word. I don't know DG one way or the other (nor do I ever have any intention of buying from him) but I'd be willing to give him the benefit of a doubt and say that at best he's well meaning but clueless.

(Would be fun to see his stuff tested, though).

[BrainOfKrane]

Choice #1 - All of DG's Leaf, including Premiums, are Plain Leaf kratom. Nothing added. All natural! - Which is what he's always claimed. OK then - Natural Kratom powder has a Maximum of 2% Mitragynine - that's just a proven FACT. It's been studied. Nobody CAN possibly have "Natural" kratom over that LIMIT... Kratom IS a Normal Distribution. A bell curve.

In that case, WHY would anyone PAY his crazy prices ?? When some vendors SELL, Top Quality kratom around 2% Mitra - WITH actuall Proof! (Lab Tests) for... well Vendor A, sells ALL their leaf for .10 cents per Gram. That's per 250g, Quarter kilo bags... DG sells, What ?? - $45 for only 125 gram - you're paying MORE than 3X... or DG is giving you only 1/3 as much Leaf... Why support a vendor who rips you off ?? Same question for Happy Hippo ?

I would argue I believe there's more to kratom than just Mitra % and it's dependent on the individual. I swear I've had kratom that blows me away while other report, from the same kratom from the same bag, that it does little. And vice versa. But I have never had pure Mitra so I honestly don't know what it feels like, only what certain kratom batches feel like.

You seem rather knowledgeable and up-to-date on the community (it's been 6 years since I was involved in the community), is there vendor(s) you highly recommend?

[anonk]

Thank you for the response. I never thought that he could be "spiking" the powder. I certainly hope not. But it's undeniable that his product had noticeably better effects than typical vendors.

This is really not difficult - You START with two choices:

Choice #1 - All of DG's Leaf, including Premiums, are Plain Leaf kratom. Nothing added. All natural! - Which is what he's always claimed. OK then - Natural Kratom powder has a Maximum of 2% Mitragynine - that's just a proven FACT. It's been studied. Nobody CAN possibly have "Natural" kratom over that LIMIT... Kratom IS a Normal Distribution. A bell curve.

In that case, WHY would anyone PAY his crazy prices ?? When some vendors SELL, Top Quality kratom around 2% Mitra - WITH actuall Proof! (Lab Tests) for... well Vendor A, sells ALL their leaf for .10 cents per Gram. That's per 250g, Quarter kilo bags... DG sells, What ?? - $45 for only 125 gram - you're paying MORE than 3X... or DG is giving you only 1/3 as much Leaf... Why support a vendor who rips you off ?? Same question for Happy Hippo ?

Choice #2 - Some of DG's Leaf, the "Premium" IS in fact - NOT natural kratom... It's actually stronger than Plain Leaf ? It's spiked AT the source. So... DG CAN claim "No Knowledge" of any enhancement. That's called Plausible Deniability - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability -- IT goes something like this. DG waves his Big American Dollars around Indonesia "I will pay Big Bucks for the strongest Kratom" NO Questions Asked.

He contacts 20 Indo suppliers. A couple of them, spike the leaf with Extract and it's definitely stronger - Supply is Limited - DG Imports the enhanced stuff and, for 6 YEARS has sold the enhanced stuff - NO Lab Tests - NO Questions Asked - and his prices, indicate he's paying Top Dollar, and prices are what you'd EXPECT to pay for Enhanced Kratom...

FIVE years ago, almost nobody Lab Tested potency - FIVE years ago, nobody had studied the Mitragynine content of Kratom! But... this is 2022.

I'm willing to mail you a set of samples to see if you can identify which one is DG' vs TFHs. If your theory is correct enhanced kratom should be easily identifiable.

[BookofEnoch1914]

"Back in the day", I.E. 4-6 years ago almost all extract especially Indo was the Black Diamond "50x" style...black/orange flakes, no matter how finely it is ground you can always see the little specks when mixed into plain leaf powder. I feel like if DG had been selling covertly enhanced powder someone would have noticed this by now between reddit "whistleblowers" and just generally observant customers. Higher grade extracts lighter in color such as Isol-8 and similar methods were so insanely expensive, I just can't see those being added by him and definitely not the Indos, the majority of those were produced state-side to my knowledge.

[mivanqua]

covertly inhanced powder



And he woulda got away with it too if it weren't for you pesky kids!


Wassup Gango Dango!


As far.as.the thread (this is for you,h²! ) only dg ive had was a little from a Famous Kratom Superstar's sampler and a few from Andy/Labdog and i didn't notice much difference. Some was good, some was ok, and some were complete misses, like Kratom Superstar's all time fave. Complete miss. Oh well. Hes just like any other small batch guy out there, I'd guess...


Just for a lark, Kratom Superstar's bag :

https://ibb.co/R9HMXqm

Its like a community historical record! Hahaha!

You all know this person if you frequented r/kratom during its heyday, which i appeared to pop in in the middle toward the end.

She gave me the flair "chronic upvoter." Haha! Cool character.

[BallzDeep9]

"Back in the day", I.E. 4-6 years ago almost all extract especially Indo was the Black Diamond "50x" style...black/orange flakes, no matter how finely it is ground you can always see the little specks when mixed into plain leaf powder. I feel like if DG had been selling covertly enhanced powder someone would have noticed this by now between reddit "whistleblowers" and just generally observant customers. Higher grade extracts lighter in color such as Isol-8 and similar methods were so insanely expensive, I just can't see those being added by him and definitely not the Indos, the majority of those were produced state-side to my knowledge.

Makes sense. No, I wanna make clear - Everything I've heard about DG, that he's a great guy & customers had respect for his business. And his customers WERE experienced - People I know and respect - Had very high opinion of DG so... that's good enough for me. I didn't get into Kratom until, mid 2016, and I wasn't involved with KC Forums - the message board (kinda' like Double MM!) where DG grew his business, back in 2015...

So I'd think, Choice #1 - would be correct. Meaning, DG's kratom was NOT actually "that much better"- Just more consistent - and maybe that's worth paying 3X the price ? Many discussions on Reddit. Many buyers saying exactly that. It's good kratom. Consumer Tested... But worth his price ? Also back then, there WERE a few bad vendors... shady fuckers selling bunk... So compared to that ? Yeah sure. Pay double or triple. Some people got money - they don't care about price. And DG's "Fanboys" from KC, absolutely swore his leaf was stronger... there's the whole psychology. Buyers' Pride... Everyone wants to BELIEVE - they've got the best, and theirs is better than yours.

Again, NO Lab testing back then! And "The Science" wasn't IN yet... So people believed, a lot of Myths and Kratom Secrets, which have since been exposed and revealed to be... BS! , all the fake strains nonsense, put forth by - Both by Indo's and also American profiteers - that guy who owns the domain = kratom.COM - maybe we'll never know who started the "White Vietnam is make from actual seeds imported from Vietnam, and only the White Vein leaves are used!" LOL

I remember, on Reddit back 6 years ago - the 2016 DEA proposed BAN - we know the history, by January 2017, that BAN was defeated! Huge sigh of relief - and almost immediately, NEW vendors jumped into the game... Socal Herbal Remedies, and others - CUT prices in Half! So before 2017, many kilos were selling for like $200 ... DG was selling kilos for $320 ... and here comes SoCal and others, with kilos for $80 bucks!! - DG and other "established" vendors - Got very defensive, as their whole business model was based on high prices.

[BrainOfKrane]

I remember the DEA fiasco. I also remember socal coming in with cheap kilos. I did think socal didn't have the same hit as DG, but you get what you pay for. I still have quite a bit of 2016 socal kratom sealed in mylar.

I would usually buy kilos off DG based on samples. One time the kilo I got did not feel like the sample at all. I was miffed and reached out, he was taken back but he did refund the price.

He's always been a great vendor for me, but I figured I'd see what 2022 is bringing with kratom vendors these days. I was surprised to see extracts seem to be more common now. I'm sure they're great but I don't want to increase tolerance. I prefer to decrease slowly over time.

[BallzDeep9]

I also remember socal coming in with cheap kilos. I did think socal didn't have the same hit as DG, but you get what you pay for. I still have quite a bit of 2016 socal kratom sealed in mylar.

That's it - right there - Socal had a LOT of imports, lots of strains - and NO Consumer Testing like DG - so more average to Low quality, with a few High quality - ALL at the same low price... DG carefully "tested", still no Labs, but feedback from his "testers"... and had like 3 different Price levels. His Premiums at $360 a kilo, but almost guaranteed quality.

NOW in 2022 - you can buy Lab Tested: 1.6% Mitra (Red Bali or Supergreen2) from Herbal RVA - $25 per quarter or $69 per split Kilo... And if that's not "strong" enough, there is very good, USA Lab made Extract (Real alkaloids - not the old 50X Black Diamond crap) - either liquid tincture, or powder grams like 40% Mitragynine for like $10 bucks a gram... All you need is a couple drops, or pinch, to make any "Average Leaf" feel like DG's best stuff. Also guaranteed.

Labs with HPLC (high performance liquid chromatography) tests - Are more accurate than "Consumer Testing". Even TFH, has taken the Consumer Testing thing to a much greater level (100's of testers, compared to DG with small group of friends,) but TFH has stated - People can and do, mis-judge Leaf.

[uspatriot995]

He's consistently been the best vendor quality I've used. I know he used to be very active on forums /w testers but he seems to have stepped away from it. Anyone have any information?

Welcome to MM - DG folded up his tent, like... 2+ years ago ? I guess he still operated on Email ? But remember his website... gone. (UPDATE: you can see the HISTORY of "DG Botanicals" website on the Wayback Machine! --> https://web.archive.org/web/20170727212 ... icals.com/

Yeah sure he DID have quality - But remember. Plain Leaf Kratom has a LIMIT on potency - You know? This idea of "Holy Grail" that 1 Vendor has a magic tree growing somewhere on the Island of Bali - that produces better kratom than the other 300+ vendors... is hogwash.

ANY vendor, who consistently sells powder - At or stronger than 2% Mitragynine ?? IS selling spiked Leaf, aka "Enhanced" kratom.

Of course 5 Years ago nobody had a Lab Test, for anything... Also - DG - ALWAYS had two different "quality" of kratom. Right ? His so-called ( Premiums ) ? He sold for double or triple the price. Yes ? And... his "Premiums" DID seem very strong. Weirdly strong. Of course his claim was, that HIS one or 2 exclusive, secret, Indo Suppliers... exported stronger leaf than anyone else's. LOL... Better than 2% Mitra ? OK. I'll spike my own, thanks... it's easily done now... and cheaper than paying his crazy $60 per 250g or whatever...

Also remember, DG started his "thing" way back in... 2015. Back then, quality Extract was NOT available online for low prices... like it is NOW.

The whole idea that someone (vendor or supplier) would spike a batch (with RCs or whatever else) is extremely unsettling. Especially unknowingly to their customers and for the profit of it all. Grateful for trustworthy vendors and lab tests. Imma check ebay for a used GC/MS machine.

[anonk]

The whole idea that someone (vendor or supplier) would spike a batch (with RCs or whatever else) is extremely unsettling. Especially unknowingly to their customers and for the profit of it all. Grateful for trustworthy vendors and lab tests. Imma check ebay for a used GC/MS machine.

Aren't those like $5,000? I'm willing to mail a sample of his most expensive strain to anyone that wants to have it lab tested. I've never found it noticeably stronger than any of the other vendors on here. If it was spiked my tolerance would be destroyed after 8 years to the point other leaf would have no effect. When in reality I switch between vendors with no issue, and find some strains from TFH simply work better for me.

[uspatriot995]

The whole idea that someone (vendor or supplier) would spike a batch (with RCs or whatever else) is extremely unsettling. Especially unknowingly to their customers and for the profit of it all. Grateful for trustworthy vendors and lab tests. Imma check ebay for a used GC/MS machine.

Aren't those like $5,000? I'm willing to mail a sample of his most expensive strain to anyone that wants to have it lab tested. I've never found it noticeably stronger than any of the other vendors on here. If it was spiked my tolerance would be destroyed after 8 years to the point other leaf would have no effect. When in reality I switch between vendors with no issue, and find some strains from TFH simply work better for me.

Yeah GCMS is too expensive. It'd be nice to run your own labs on each batch.
We place a lot of trust in these vendors.
Just really don't like hearing about this.
Who knows if it's really true or not.

[MetalMamaRocks]

covertly inhanced powder



And he woulda got away with it too if it weren't for you pesky kids!


Wassup Gango Dango!


As far.as.the thread (this is for you,h²! ) only dg ive had was a little from a Famous Kratom Superstar's sampler and a few from Andy/Labdog and i didn't notice much difference. Some was good, some was ok, and some were complete misses, like Kratom Superstar's all time fave. Complete miss. Oh well. Hes just like any other small batch guy out there, I'd guess...


Just for a lark, Kratom Superstar's bag :

https://ibb.co/R9HMXqm

Its like a community historical record! Hahaha!

You all know this person if you frequented r/kratom during its heyday, which i appeared to pop in in the middle toward the end.

She gave me the flair "chronic upvoter." Haha! Cool character.

r/kratom was fun back then, a lot of cool characters! But did you know the Superstar you're talking about was actually a dude? They posted a pic once and said it was them. I was shocked! I just assumed ....

As far as DG goes, I got some really good leaf from them at first but after that a bunch that didn't do squat. I don't think it was spiked or enhanced, I think they just charged a lot for regular leaf. I still have a couple ounces and some samples left.

[add to descartes]

It's spiked AT the source. So... DG CAN claim "No Knowledge" of any enhancement. That's called Plausible Deniability .... his Big American Dollars around Indonesia "I will pay Big Bucks for the strongest Kratom" NO Questions Asked.

He contacts 20 Indo suppliers. A couple of them, spike the leaf with Extract and it's definitely stronger - Supply is Limited - DG Imports the enhanced stuff and, for 6 YEARS has sold the enhanced stuff - NO Lab Tests - NO Questions Asked - and his prices, indicate he's paying Top Dollar, and prices are what you'd EXPECT to pay for Enhanced Kratom...

not that I really care, but what evidence is there for that? that's a really strong accusation.

[mivanqua]

It's spiked AT the source. So... DG CAN claim "No Knowledge" of any enhancement. That's called Plausible Deniability .... his Big American Dollars around Indonesia "I will pay Big Bucks for the strongest Kratom" NO Questions Asked.

He contacts 20 Indo suppliers. A couple of them, spike the leaf with Extract and it's definitely stronger - Supply is Limited - DG Imports the enhanced stuff and, for 6 YEARS has sold the enhanced stuff - NO Lab Tests - NO Questions Asked - and his prices, indicate he's paying Top Dollar, and prices are what you'd EXPECT to pay for Enhanced Kratom...

not that I really care, but what evidence is there for that? that's a really strong accusation.

Have you...uh...MET BALLZ?

I'm just kidding, but i definitely have had my doubts here and there on the spiked leaf

[BallzDeep9]

... what evidence is there for that? that's a really strong accusation.

no, no, no... it's called a hypothetical .

Someone (4 years ago), one of DG"s Fans, made a Statement: "DG's Kratom is TWICE as strong as ANY other vendor out there!"

So I answered with ... "How could that possibly be True?" - A hypothetical = One possible answer... NOT an "accusation".

Of course, the correct, Answer IS - NO. That's NOT possible for Plain Leaf kratom, it's all from the same place. No single Vendor, has stronger kratom -OVERALL- than any other vendor. AND... there's also a Limit on Quality of Plain Leaf powder.

[mivanqua]

Problem is, we all like to think we'd be able to tell if it was spiked, but is that reality? That's the crux here.

[add to descartes]

that's fine if it's a hypothetical; that just wasn't specified in the original post. I was just wondering if you had first hand info, or perhaps they got exposed by someone, like speciosa republic maybe?

seems possible that their leaf might have just had a better than usual blend of alkaloids than people are used to. or even a placebo effect because people were already primed to think it was going to be some super special leaf. just some guesses.

the thing is, with some labs you see these higher than average levels of mit, but then the leaf turns out to be subpar. I don't think a higher level of mit necessarily translates into better effects.

it's hard to make any definitive statements because we know so little about the specific mechanisms of action of the alks.