Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Does anyone have any solid and specific information on the AKA's uses of donations? Their website did not have anything listed. Thanks

I would be interested in this as well. I would like to be wrong, but I feel as though they may not be operating in the interest of independent sellers who bring us their small batch goodness. At least not in the long term, which has yet to come.

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:53 pm I would be interested in this as well. I would like to be wrong, but I feel as though they may not be operating in the interest of independent sellers who bring us their small batch goodness. At least not in the long term, which has yet to come.

I don't think you're wrong on this, unfortunately. Talk to any small batch vendor. Could be that in the long term, you'd get Vienna Sausages instead of a juicy porterhouse steak. If you know what I mean.

uspatriot995 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:15 am

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:53 pm I would be interested in this as well. I would like to be wrong, but I feel as though they may not be operating in the interest of independent sellers who bring us their small batch goodness. At least not in the long term, which has yet to come.

I don't think you're wrong on this, unfortunately. Talk to any small batch vendor. Could be that in the long term, you'd get Vienna Sausages instead of a juicy porterhouse steak. If you know what I mean.

Dammit. I hate it when I'm right.

Bestboy143 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:24 pm Does anyone have any solid and specific information on the AKA's uses of donations? Their website did not have anything listed. Thanks

It appears a good chunk goes to lining the pockets of Mac Haddow and his friends, relatives, and associates.

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-law- ... nderbelly/

Pete2000 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:43 pm

Bestboy143 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:24 pm Does anyone have any solid and specific information on the AKA's uses of donations? Their website did not have anything listed. Thanks

It appears a good chunk goes to lining the pockets of Mac Haddow and his friends, relatives, and associates.

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-law- ... nderbelly/

That's worse than I expected. Not surprising though. The way the AKA begs for money with very little to show for it just stank of embezzlement to me. I hope more about this gets revealed soon.

There's a lot of fear mongering about kratom in that article too. It's true that more scientific study is needed before anyone can be 100% certain that you can't OD on kratom, but I still call BS on some of the quotes claiming kratom is deadly.

Pete2000 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:43 pm

Bestboy143 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:24 pm Does anyone have any solid and specific information on the AKA's uses of donations? Their website did not have anything listed. Thanks

It appears a good chunk goes to lining the pockets of Mac Haddow and his friends, relatives, and associates.

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-law- ... nderbelly/

The more I read about Mac the more I understood why a large part of the community has lost faith in the aka. If you go back a couple years there seems to be a lot more positive recognition to their contributions..but I guess with anything else the more money comes into play corruption will always follow

Csharpe wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:22 pm

Pete2000 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:43 pm

Bestboy143 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:24 pm Does anyone have any solid and specific information on the AKA's uses of donations? Their website did not have anything listed. Thanks

It appears a good chunk goes to lining the pockets of Mac Haddow and his friends, relatives, and associates.

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-law- ... nderbelly/

The more I read about Mac the more I understood why a large part of the community has lost faith in the aka. If you go back a couple years there seems to be a lot more positive recognition to their contributions..but I guess with anything else the more money comes into play corruption will always follow

That is the sad truth of money. Lots of it in one place attracts the kind of people who put the love of money above all else.

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:40 am That is the sad truth of money. Lots of it in one place attracts the kind of people who put the love of money above all else.

Yup. But global Capitalism drives everything, even "Red China" participates, invests, buys and sells... imo a well regulated Capitalist, democratic system is the best one. Key being regulated by voters to curb our greedy human impulses... Lots of quotes about Money, power, and corruption.

It seems that, all of the early Kratom Pioneers - that guy who registered a domain: Kratom.com, 20 years ago ? those who went to Indonesia on vacation and discovered the magic Leaf - those who began importing & selling, and manufacturing products like VivaZen, for the head-shop market - ALL those folks jumped on a huge opportunity for PROFIT

Mac Haddow is an amazing guy... Kratom is very lucky to have him, he goes way back 30+ years with Sen. Orrin Hatch and the fight with FDA over Dietary Supplements, the fight WON by Mac and his fellow Utah Mormon Republicans - the right for Americans to use, natural herbs and vitamins, without excess regulation by the Federal Government. They got the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) passed! - the rest is history.

Yes, Mac and AKA - do actually report "Small Batch Vendors" to the FDA - Rat, fink, narc, snitch, whatever you wanna call it... He brags about doing that, in a AKA video last year. But also - AKA has, done lots of good things - coordinated a Legal response to State ban attempts - getting involved with the World Health Org. review of kratom, which was KEY to refuting the FDA's lies. Mac and AKA, have stood up to the "Kratom = opioid" bullshit of Scott Gottlieb - FDA Commissioner appointed by Trump... it's AKA "Big Kratom" -vs- FDA's Big Pharma.

[this is all my opinion of how things stand, I don't know exactly what AKA's motives truly are]

as shady as the AKA has been, and is currently, they seem to be helping keeping it legal overall. I know they have their own plans about what they want to do, probably control the US kratom industry. but for right now, they're a good thing for us...because they lobby the government against making it illegal. ultimately if they have their way, small batch vendors will essentially be eliminated. but I think that if it wasn't for them, it would have been banned already, years ago.

I have been thinking, for awhile, that we're in a kind of an awkward in between phase, that we're lucky that the current state of kratom is the way it is, but it can't last. we're on the pivot point of a teeter totter; one side is complete illegalization, the other is what the AKA wants...which seems to be control over how kratom is able to be sold (hence their "certification program" where you can give them a certain amount of money to be considered a "trusted vendor" or something like that)

I'm just enjoying it while it lasts, I feel like I'm lucky that it's still legal, but I will not, in any way, he surprised if one day it's banned outright. I'm a pessimist though.

uspatriot995 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:15 am

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:53 pm I would be interested in this as well. I would like to be wrong, but I feel as though they may not be operating in the interest of independent sellers who bring us their small batch goodness. At least not in the long term, which has yet to come.

I don't think you're wrong on this, unfortunately. Talk to any small batch vendor. Could be that in the long term, you'd get Vienna Sausages instead of a juicy porterhouse steak. If you know what I mean.

crap... I mean look, if they are making money and getting real results, that's fine. Sort of like paying a lawyer to represent you, you know? I just don't want it to be one of these things I've seen on charity watch. Like The Christians for Jews foundation by Rabbi Ekstein and now his daughter. Look at that one. It's disgusting. I dug deep on that, and she makes a ton of money each year, as her father, and there are heavily payed employees. I found out that she indirectly gets more money somehow, and it's all like tax free. It was something like millions a year just for her. Something like 30 percent of the donations ever made it to the poor. And they use the holocaust survivor thing too. Lol do the freaking math. What is everybody 120 over there? lol. It's really impoverished Eastern Europeans who have been ravaged by communism, at least that's who she brandishes in the commercials. They only give to Jewish people too, which makes me think even the 30 percent doesn't go where you think it is. I don't know how these people get away with it. It's probably one of the lowliest things you can do as a person. Christianjewish fellowship. Rabbi Eckstein. Should be in prison. A police fund called me recently too. Scam. Definitely look into anything you donate to. This is all a tangent, but I've found these were 100 percent legit: St Jude's, Shriner's, and Stephen Siller's Tunnel to Towers. Red Cross. Scam. Actually most are believe it or not. It's good to know that 80 percent of the above are going to the actual people in a non discriminatory way. The rest of the fees are advertising and operational costs. Very little for payroll.

I gotta look into this AKA thing more now... I just hope it's not a con job. I emailed them and asked for them for financials. Any vendors have anything to say?

add to descartes wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:02 am [this is all my opinion of how things stand, I don't know exactly what AKA's motives truly are]

as shady as the AKA has been, and is currently, they seem to be helping keeping it legal overall. I know they have their own plans about what they want to do, probably control the US kratom industry. but for right now, they're a good thing for us...because they lobby the government against making it illegal. ultimately if they have their way, small batch vendors will essentially be eliminated. but I think that if it wasn't for them, it would have been banned already, years ago.

I have been thinking, for awhile, that we're in a kind of an awkward in between phase, that we're lucky that the current state of kratom is the way it is, but it can't last. we're on the pivot point of a teeter totter; one side is complete illegalization, the other is what the AKA wants...which seems to be control over how kratom is able to be sold (hence their "certification program" where you can give them a certain amount of money to be considered a "trusted vendor" or something like that)

I'm just enjoying it while it lasts, I feel like I'm lucky that it's still legal, but I will not, in any way, he surprised if one day it's banned outright. I'm a pessimist though.

I think you're right, but we cannot let them win. Line in the sand man. MODS: can we start a mega thread for what each of us can do? Besides, all of the advocacy shouldn't be on the shoulders of one company, regardless of their validity. I emailed Pat at Pain News Network, and I'm hoping he's interested. Together we stand. Divided we fall. I for one, will not be going back to these doctors and eyed up and down and having to explain my need for pain relief. I literally want to jump out of this chair right my fibro sucks so bad. No way am I going back to that bs. Not even talking about the addiction and withdrawal aspects. I don't want what they're selling anyway!!! Come on guys. This is our live we're talking about. These governments need to be checked in a big way!

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:44 pm

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:40 am That is the sad truth of money. Lots of it in one place attracts the kind of people who put the love of money above all else.

Yup. But global Capitalism drives everything, even "Red China" participates, invests, buys and sells... imo a well regulated Capitalist, democratic system is the best one. Key being regulated by voters to curb our greedy human impulses... Lots of quotes about Money, power, and corruption.

It seems that, all of the early Kratom Pioneers - that guy who registered a domain: Kratom.com, 20 years ago ? those who went to Indonesia on vacation and discovered the magic Leaf - those who began importing & selling, and manufacturing products like VivaZen, for the head-shop market - ALL those folks jumped on a huge opportunity for PROFIT

Mac Haddow is an amazing guy... Kratom is very lucky to have him, he goes way back 30+ years with Sen. Orrin Hatch and the fight with FDA over Dietary Supplements, the fight WON by Mac and his fellow Utah Mormon Republicans - the right for Americans to use, natural herbs and vitamins, without excess regulation by the Federal Government. They got the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) passed! - the rest is history.

Yes, Mac and AKA - do actually report "Small Batch Vendors" to the FDA - Rat, fink, narc, snitch, whatever you wanna call it... He brags about doing that, in a AKA video last year. But also - AKA has, done lots of good things - coordinated a Legal response to State ban attempts - getting involved with the World Health Org. review of kratom, which was KEY to refuting the FDA's lies. Mac and AKA, have stood up to the "Kratom = opioid" bullshit of Scott Gottlieb - FDA Commissioner appointed by Trump... it's AKA "Big Kratom" -vs- FDA's Big Pharma.

You have any links or examples of that? And what do you mean by rat small vendors? Also, Scott Gotlieb was in the picture before Trump so that doesn't even makes sense. Don't make this political. Utah's conservative Senator Mike something knocked it out of the park for us. FDA has been a sham for a looooong time. Ever read about the surgeon who discovered the FDA was hiding hundreds of thousands of surgical tool malfunctions. Like, life and death tools... We are talking about comic book villain level shit here. I mean these are the people demonizing Kratom and not letting up. It's been 8 years already, at least. Methadone and Fentanyl OD's as Kratom deaths lol. They can't even get good stats either. "180 deaths in 8 years." WOW. WE GOTTA BAN THIS. More people have probably died from slipping on banana peels in a year lmao. These agencies have been this way for a long time. Pharma, rehabs, healthcare industry.... it's been a racket for decades now. Rehabs are one of the biggest money making scams out there. They prey on desperate families and lost souls. We are not up against good people here.

Seems like the AkA is trying to be faithful to put money back into the pockets of its largest donors, by trying to REGULATE, this tea leaf, to the point where part of their agenda: KCPA- as it passes in state to state, would require testing of every strain, in which only the biggest vendors (the aka donors) can afford to do, thus hindering the sales of small batch vendors (who we love) by causing them to have to pay extra. Really they’re trying to gain a monopoly over the industry.

Pete2000 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:43 pm

Bestboy143 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:24 pm Does anyone have any solid and specific information on the AKA's uses of donations? Their website did not have anything listed. Thanks

It appears a good chunk goes to lining the pockets of Mac Haddow and his friends, relatives, and associates.

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-law- ... nderbelly/

Courthouse News - is a long standing and aggressive Anti Kratom publication (though I don't think exclusively kratom). I remember when they started this topic. It was a long time ago! And this
was, accd. to what I saw briefly- their last segment so stretching it out, saying the same thing repeatedly, adding curated hysteria news without a shred of neutrality / objectivity - conditioning passive minds that don't care about alternatives, believing what they are told to believe. So be careful when consuming content - that's a default mode. Awareness had to be called back repeatedly.

AKA is a mixed bag. These lobbyists are experienced professionals and glad we've had them take on severely corrupt over-reach but Mac went off the rails with dirty plays last cpl years. I wrote in to tell him what I thought about it.
"Lining pockets" Well it's a paid position so yea. What they do with their money - you know...

Hulu2021 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:14 pm Seems like the AkA is trying to be faithful to put money back into the pockets of its largest donors, by trying to REGULATE, this tea leaf, to the point where part of their agenda: KCPA- as it passes in state to state, would require testing of every strain, in which only the biggest vendors (the aka donors) can afford to do, thus hindering the sales of small batch vendors (who we love) by causing them to have to pay extra. Really they’re trying to gain a monopoly over the industry.

Who do you consider small? I honestly thought most of them were on the small side. I'm Smiley all the way. 80 percent of my DD stash is Smiley Time. High Sierra I had a bunch from. I really liked their one batch and got a ton of it after. Aside from that, I felt like most were darker and had a fermented taste. I like the super green with the fresh tannin taste. Seems to always work the best for me. sorry... Are we talking about the not so great companies with stupidly priced kilos? I'm also wondering what metrics are used? Is a gross $100k-200k small? $800k?