Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hey everyone,

I’ve been using Kratom for almost a year. During this one year, something has happened several times now. When I dose too high or take doses too closely together I do not wobble, I get anxiety, kinda jittery.

The thing is, I’m already a low doser. I take <10g a day. I’ve scoured these forums and can’t find any information on this.

Recently it seemed to happen out of nowhere. I don’t recall dosing higher than usual or too closely together.

Is it possible some people are more sensitive to the antagonist alks in kratom? Or maybe my body metabolizes then slower which leads to a buildup?

I’m not sure what else to do besides take a break, the only thing I haven’t done. I keep lowering my dose, I cut my 4th dose out 5 months ago, but it still happens.

I really envy those who can dose high or low depending on the time of day. Right now, if I go any higher than 2g I get anxiety. I was at 2.75g for a couple months with no issues. Then it started happening again.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any thoughts, shared experiences or input is appreciated.

I also dose 3 times a day at least 5 hours apart. There’s always at least 12 hours between my last and first burns of the day.

I’ve tried switching strains, vendors etc. it doesn’t seem to make a difference. I haven’t added anything to my regimen that I haven’t had before. Nothing is different.

After my honeymoon period it was understandable because I was clearly dosing too high, too often and I had to do an aggressive taper. This was 7-8 months ago and I was taking 4g every 5h. I didn’t know it was the kratom. It was like adding fuel to a fire every time I dosed tho, and it took 10 days for it to settle down.

So what happens when the issue starts is I’ll take my dose and it’ll hit just fine. About an hour -90 mins into the burn i get a little jittery, and in some cases the burn will stop altogether and be replaced with anxiety. I’ll feel the anx for several hours. If I take more at the 5 hour mark the anxiety kicks up a notch and it’ll take longer for it to subside.

So sometimes I’ll stop dosing for the day. The next day my first burn is a gamble. The other day I took 1g, it started to go fine so I stacked another 1g and it sent me into jitters.

This issue really sucks for me and I’m reaching out for help. There really isn’t much information on this issue out there.

I take Effexor, 112.5mg per day, and adderrall 10mg in the morning but not every day. I don’t believe my meds are related to the issue.

If I had to guess I would say it is the effexor, despite being prescribed for anxiety, it can cause it as well.


Common Effexor and Effexor XR side effects include:

Dizziness and/or blurred vision
Feeling anxious, nervous, and/or jittery
Feeling fatigued, tired, and/or overly sleepy
Headache
Increased blood pressure
Increased heart rate
Loss of appetite, constipation, diarrhea, dry mouth, or nausea/vomiting
Nausea
Sexual problems, including sexual dysfunction and low libido
Shaking/tremors
Sweating
Trouble sleeping or changes in sleep habits
Unusual dreams
Yawning

EDIT: I thought this med sounded familiar, I was prescribed this in the mid to late 90's for a very short time. It made ME shaky and on edge, it was prescribed to me for depression, I discontinued due to side effects.

White kratom has a tendency to give me anxiety. Sometimes other more stimulating greens can do that to me as well as blends.

But when I'm dehydrated it can happen with any kind. I drink 32 oz of water with each dose and some in between doses. Sometimes that still isn't enough depending on what I've had to eat, the season, etc.

If it happens again, personally I'd start with some nice cool water. Take deep breaths and drink it down. Within 15 minutes you'll feel better if that was indeed the problem.

But I also understand medications not wanting to play well together. Wellbutrin was giving me extra anxiety after the first week. I pushed through though because at least it wasn't keeping me from sleeping like most other antidepressants I've tried. Kratom didn't help much during that period.

My thyroid is also my body's enemy, so it's never producing the right amount of hormones on its own. That by itself can cause me anxiety sometimes.

Anxiety sucks, especially when you don't know for sure what's causing it.

First the usual suspects - any changes in your health completely aside from the kratom? IOW, has anything in your life changed in the last few months significantly (either good or bad - stress is measured the same regardless of the way it swings)? If that's not true, how about your physical condition - anything changed with it? (Weight loss or gain, pain - what has your GP said about your current health?).

If all of those are as near the same as they were a few months ago then it probably is time for a break - doesn't have to be long. Some folks even say three days is fine (I'd prefer four). I did a two week reset (not especially on purpose) and it was pretty amazing how differently kratom hit me after that.

If that doesn't help (and you have seen your GP recently) I'm not sure what else to suggest.

Good replies to this post. I particularly agree that it's a bad idea to mix psychotropic medications with Kratom, especially the ones you mentioned, which are essentially stimulants or have stimulant activity. Kratom has some stimulant properties, as you know.

And then again, it could just be that Kratom isn't for you.

I have heard of a few people where this is the case. If you keep trying and take a break as suggested and the problem persists regardless, you may wish to consider the possibility that your chemistry is just not made up for Kratom.

I'd consider kratom being the cause until I read other meds are being combined with it. Even too much caffeine can be considered or just the situation in the world today with the economy, divisiveness, covid, etc., could have an effect but I believe it's the combination of meds.

I breafly too effexor in highschool and never felt soo fuked in my life tbh. Even friends noticed and asked if I was on something.. plus dick was dead too. Never took a pharma med again except antibiotics if needed. Fuk that shit IMO.
Having said that.

If low doses give energy, and high doses relaxation (generally) then low doses may make edgy, and if getting used to say 4g dose, then now with tolerance it's more like a 2g dose. If you get my point?
Also maybe you will do better with a red or green than white.

Goodluck

Also, you do know what Adderall is right? Like researched it? That wouldn't help anxiety and may bring it for some. Kratom is my antidepressant, focuser, booster and/or relaxer .
Maybe weening off the meds under Dr supervision is an option? Or maybe Kratom is a no go ATM.
Goodluck though

This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:14 pm This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

Oh for shits sake... DO. NOT. TELL. BALLZ or KELLEY. They are totally convinced on this 'no shit' theory.

Stoked burns are coming back for you. I was just about to posit the ol' BSO and Agmatine theory but didn't have to.

No such thing as TMI around here.

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:14 pm This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

MAGNESIUM!!! AND CHIA SEEDS everyday!! And the obvious water!!!

Loveandpeace wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:24 pm Oh for shits sake... DO. NOT. TELL. BALLZ or KELLEY. They are totally convinced on this 'no shit' theory.

LOL - hey, *I* didn't start that (it was definitely Mr. B). And I'm not "totally" convinced - I AM totally convinced an empty stomach is essential (and I don't think it's a coincidence that it's printed on all the TFH kratom labels). The bowel thing is, I think, something that can't hurt and may well help, but as to whether it's completely necessary? I don't know. But it wouldn't take much to make me think that someone who is constipated (and I mean REALLY constipated as this guy was) would have trouble with kratom. If you can't even process food, how are you going to process kratom?

However, when someone complains they aren't getting the burns they used to get I do think it's one more thing to check off (namely, empty stomach, rotation, empty bowels, low dose). But other than the empty stomach I think ALL the rest of those are subject to very individual feelings and needs (and even empty stomach is a bit questionable - I've seen people who say it ONLY works if they eat food with it (OTOH - that doesn't negate the empty stomach theory, because the kratom could still be taken on an empty stomach. Just with food at the same time).

A clear and normally-moving digestive tract IS key to keeping kratom burns good. I don't personally consider that theory as much as objective fact.

I've experienced a cessation of benefits because of constipation, and also a quick return to form when everything is normal again. Nothing else was different at the time.

Good hydration, good sleep, and a good digestive tract are the big three factors in my experience.

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:14 pm This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

It should be an automatic that whomever take kratom is taking magnesium supplement daily. It should be a note on every pack of Kratom imo.

500mg of a triblend tab every evening keeps me good and issue free.
I don't mess with pharm laxitives personally. Magnesium supplement will keep you moving and it's very good for you, used in alot of functions and most people are deficient on mag as is.

Glad to hear you got it cleared up!
I've used Kratom since about 2007. If I miss more than 2-4days in a row of my nightly magnesium, I start getting constipated. EOD works for me too, but I just keep it at everyday since it's good for you. Lots of water daily too ofcourse

"EOD works for me too, but I just keep it at everyday since it's good for you."

I looked up EOD to see what it was. All I got was Explosive Ordnance Disposal, used by highly trained military people.

I supposed that's one remedy for constipation. But everyday?

Every Other Day lol

Blergs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:27 am

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:14 pm This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

It should be an automatic that whomever take kratom is taking magnesium supplement daily. It should be a note on every pack of Kratom imo.

500mg of a triblend tab every evening keeps me good and issue free.
I don't mess with pharm laxitives personally. Magnesium supplement will keep you moving and it's very good for you, used in alot of functions and most people are deficient on mag as is.

Glad to hear you got it cleared up!
I've used Kratom since about 2007. If I miss more than 2-4days in a row of my nightly magnesium, I start getting constipated. EOD works for me too, but I just keep it at everyday since it's good for you. Lots of water daily too ofcourse

There are several types of magnesium.
Which do you recommend for regularity?

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:52 pm

Blergs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:27 am

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:14 pm This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

It should be an automatic that whomever take kratom is taking magnesium supplement daily. It should be a note on every pack of Kratom imo.

500mg of a triblend tab every evening keeps me good and issue free.
I don't mess with pharm laxitives personally. Magnesium supplement will keep you moving and it's very good for you, used in alot of functions and most people are deficient on mag as is.

Glad to hear you got it cleared up!
I've used Kratom since about 2007. If I miss more than 2-4days in a row of my nightly magnesium, I start getting constipated. EOD works for me too, but I just keep it at everyday since it's good for you. Lots of water daily too ofcourse

There are several types of magnesium.
Which do you recommend for regularity?

I believe there are 7 of them. Maybe more. The blend I take has 5 of them. So I guess as many as you can get.

I take citrate gummies, I think it's the type they use to clean you out but for some it's too harsh and they recommend glycinate. I read oxide, the most common to find, is not the best. I also found a powdered form called Nuvia that has added lemon Balm, L-theanine and hops for relaxation. Otherwise big horse capsules

But, the initial topic never said the issue was kratom not working and not getting burns. It said it did work fine for an hour or so but then turned into jitters. That doesn't sound like a constipation issue. Could even be caffeine.

Here's a video about herbs for anxiety:
https://youtu.be/TVJ3lIWl3dg

After re-reading your post it made me wonder if the symptoms you describe of jitteriness is even anxiety and not something else because anxiety usually has more symptoms than just jitters such as worry, feelings of panic, shortness of breath, chest pressure, general feeling of fear that something bad might happen, restlessness and insomnia.

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:52 pm

Blergs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:27 am

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:14 pm This may be TMI for some…

I think the issue is figured out. I got a ct scan done because of abdominal pain. I was very constipated.

I’ve been working on that for the past several days and my burns are coming back.

Thank you all who commented.

It should be an automatic that whomever take kratom is taking magnesium supplement daily. It should be a note on every pack of Kratom imo.

500mg of a triblend tab every evening keeps me good and issue free.
I don't mess with pharm laxitives personally. Magnesium supplement will keep you moving and it's very good for you, used in alot of functions and most people are deficient on mag as is.

Glad to hear you got it cleared up!
I've used Kratom since about 2007. If I miss more than 2-4days in a row of my nightly magnesium, I start getting constipated. EOD works for me too, but I just keep it at everyday since it's good for you. Lots of water daily too ofcourse

There are several types of magnesium.
Which do you recommend for regularity?

I use this one which is a tri-blend. But you would probably be fine with mag citrate.
Webber Naturals Magnesium 500 mg, 60 Tablets, Enhanced Absorption Mineral, Supports Bone and Muscle Functions, Vegan https://a.co/d/iVTlkYy

Lokey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:40 am I take citrate gummies, I think it's the type they use to clean you out but for some it's too harsh and they recommend glycinate. I read oxide, the most common to find, is not the best. I also found a powdered form called Nuvia that has added lemon Balm, L-theanine and hops for relaxation. Otherwise big horse capsules

But, the initial topic never said the issue was kratom not working and not getting burns. It said it did work fine for an hour or so but then turned into jitters. That doesn't sound like a constipation issue. Could even be caffeine.

Here's a video about herbs for anxiety:
https://youtu.be/TVJ3lIWl3dg

After re-reading your post it made me wonder if the symptoms you describe of jitteriness is even anxiety and not something else because anxiety usually has more symptoms than just jitters such as worry, feelings of panic, shortness of breath, chest pressure, general feeling of fear that something bad might happen, restlessness and insomnia.

Thank you very much.

You are correct, the anxiety I feel is completely physical. For me it’s a side effect and apparently it signifies that something isn’t right; either taking too much and too often or something going on in my body that’s keeping it from working correctly. I
It’s definitely weird which is why I chose to bring this to the community for feedback. I know a one other guy that gets anxiety burns and a couple people with lower ceilings like me, meaning we can’t take as much as others without experiencing diminished returns.

The bottom line is that if I, or anyone, want to keep getting the benefits of kratom we need to figure out how it works (and doesn’t work) for us, and remain with the boundaries that it seems to set.

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:25 pm a couple people with lower ceilings like me, meaning we can’t take as much as others without experiencing diminished returns.

Nearly everyone experiences diminishing returns when taking too much - I learned the hard way that less is indeed more. Now I really can't take more than 3 grams at a time (and usually on 2.5 or less).

Are you expecting to take more? If you CAN take 3 grams without issues then you should be fine.

Trippin_Buddha wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:25 pm

Lokey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:40 am I take citrate gummies, I think it's the type they use to clean you out but for some it's too harsh and they recommend glycinate. I read oxide, the most common to find, is not the best. I also found a powdered form called Nuvia that has added lemon Balm, L-theanine and hops for relaxation. Otherwise big horse capsules

But, the initial topic never said the issue was kratom not working and not getting burns. It said it did work fine for an hour or so but then turned into jitters. That doesn't sound like a constipation issue. Could even be caffeine.

Here's a video about herbs for anxiety:
https://youtu.be/TVJ3lIWl3dg

After re-reading your post it made me wonder if the symptoms you describe of jitteriness is even anxiety and not something else because anxiety usually has more symptoms than just jitters such as worry, feelings of panic, shortness of breath, chest pressure, general feeling of fear that something bad might happen, restlessness and insomnia.

Thank you very much.

You are correct, the anxiety I feel is completely physical. For me it’s a side effect and apparently it signifies that something isn’t right; either taking too much and too often or something going on in my body that’s keeping it from working correctly. I
It’s definitely weird which is why I chose to bring this to the community for feedback. I know a one other guy that gets anxiety burns and a couple people with lower ceilings like me, meaning we can’t take as much as others without experiencing diminished returns.

The bottom line is that if I, or anyone, want to keep getting the benefits of kratom we need to figure out how it works (and doesn’t work) for us, and remain with the boundaries that it seems to set.

i appreciate this a lot as it resonates with me; I blew past those boundaries and it wasn’t good. I always responded to low doses (like 1.3-1.5grams) and I took it three times a day. Then I had some horrible insomnia set in in July and my upped my frequency including using it in the middle of the night and bam, last month I was at 8-12 grams a day and things started to go downhill. Anxiety three hours or so after a dose, hair loss and some other stuff. As someone who has anxiety, increasing it rather than helping manage it was bad bad news. So I cut my dose over the past week and am in much better shape anxiety wise. But the first few days of cutting it I had a knot in my stomach (an anxiety knot, not due to constipation though my stomach had little interest in food) and had to employ a ton of strategies and supplements to address the anxiety.

meds play a big roll, even adderall. If you decided to go kratom route, best advice to quit adderall all together. I noticed it screws up your kratom highs and addys do have bad side effects. So if you skipping your addys it might catch up to you with wd's. second 10g is a lot a day unless its very weak kratom... There is kratom now you cant go over 2 grams per dose or it will send you into anxiety panic land.. like luckys fasts for example but this applys any whites or even greens.. if going this high 10g, might as well only go with reds, reds are more calming and not as stimulant on the brain since its sun oxidized.

Kratom in recent months was giving me bad generalized anxiety and honestly it was probably because I was taking too much too frequently. I’ve since tapered to 3 doses of 2.5g and Im feeling much better. Cant speak to the effexor but i think dose reduction helps significantly.

You are absolutely right, sir, and good on you for getting your dose down there (I do two 2.5 doses a day).

A break also helps (right now I'm taking a three day break because I'm not playing tennis and can live without it - but Monday I'll be starting up again :>).

If more then 2 grams a dose and barley water, guaranteed to have isssue... drink plenty water first or right after the dose, that way kratom expands while being processed. if you wait one hour and no water, very easily high chance of having issue, not only anxiety.... 10 grams per day should be only if more reds taken, sweet spot for green or white is 6 grams per day.. you can do 2g in morning, 2 lunch and 2g close to night. or 3 in the morning and 3g after lunch, never at night... watch out for batches also that cause anxiety and other issue if over 2grams, like the lucky brand for example. follow these steps, bullet proof you will zero down to no issues.

Kratom can be a stimulate. Anything that stimulates you can increase anxiety.