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I am reading an article by Murtadha Basheer, Rana Khudhair Jasim, Gam Lay Harn, School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Universiti Sains Malaysia, Minden 11800, Penang, Malaysia

Basheer M, Khudhair Jasim R, Harn GL. Controversial usages of kratom (Mitragyna speciosa): For good or for evil. World J Pharmacol 2022; 11(3): 16-26 [DOI: 10.5497/wjp.v11.i3.16] Nov. 2022

Snippets :
Kratom exerts its pharmacological effects in a dose-dependent manner, where it acts as a stimulant at low doses and a depressant at high doses. Regular usage of kratom can lead to dependency. The cellular mechanisms of kratom are complex and not well understood. The major alkaloid of the kratom leaves, mitragynine, and its minor alkaloid, 7-hydroxymitragynine, are likely responsible for the pharmacological effects of kratom. As the data have shown so far, deaths due to the sole use of kratom are rare. Typically, the combination use of kratom with other illicit drugs are the main causes of death. Given the valuable therapeutic properties of kratom, total banning of kratom will be a great loss to the pharmaceutical industry. Instead controlled usage should be practiced especially in the event of kratom misuse for recreational purposes. Considering both benefits and risks of kratom usage, one can wisely choose to use it for good.

Concerns regarding the potential of kratom dependency and addiction in humans are well founded[30,76,77]. However, for many frequent users, the primary objective was merely to avoid weariness and to boost energy. In such instances, frequent usage may not be defined as dependency or addiction but rather as a desire to increase productivity[78]. This is consistent with “drug instrumentation” hypotheses, according to which a substance is used for a specific, planned aim[6,79]. Long-term use of kratom may result in adaptation, where outright addiction was reported under certain circumstances[76]. It has been suggested that a considerable percentage of kratom usage happens as a substitution for more hazardous drugs, particularly opioids in individuals who already have a history of substance misuse. In these circumstances kratom use is considered harm reduction rather than drug abuse[6,80].

Maybe the dudes friends or relatives are Kratom dealers. No, this a current scientific analysis that concludes that Kratom should be legalized not banned. The ammunition is starting to show up, if we have to take action to keep it legal.

https://www.wjgnet.com/2220-3192/full/v11/i3/16.htm

"kratom use is considered harm reduction rather than drug abuse"
Word.

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:58 am "kratom use is considered harm reduction rather than drug abuse"
Word.

So true! This is where kratom shines!

Given the valuable therapeutic properties of kratom, total banning of kratom will be a great loss to the pharmaceutical industry.

If you would have told me in 2019 that I would be alcohol free for over four years, completely off pain pills and medically assisted treatment for OUD, and off of daily benzos, I would have laughed you out of the room. And yet here we are.

OriginalLHB wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:16 pm Given the valuable therapeutic properties of kratom, total banning of kratom will be a great loss to the pharmaceutical industry.

If you would have told me in 2019 that I would be alcohol free for over four years, completely off pain pills and medically assisted treatment for OUD, and off of daily benzos, I would have laughed you out of the room. And yet here we are.

You could argue the opposite... that the LEGALITY of kràtom is the loss to the pharmaceutical industry and the & banning of kràtom is their gain. Their goal is to sell more drugs and with kràtom around, they sell fewer.

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:31 pm

OriginalLHB wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:16 pm Given the valuable therapeutic properties of kratom, total banning of kratom will be a great loss to the pharmaceutical industry.

If you would have told me in 2019 that I would be alcohol free for over four years, completely off pain pills and medically assisted treatment for OUD, and off of daily benzos, I would have laughed you out of the room. And yet here we are.

You could argue the opposite... that the LEGALITY of kràtom is the loss to the pharmaceutical industry and the & banning of kràtom is their gain. Their goal is to sell more drugs and with kràtom around, they sell fewer.

I agree. But, with Kratom use exploding, and the negative propaganda being challenged, they would be smart to start testing this stuff...because it might play a big role in the near future and they will be left behind.

The world WOULD be smart to test mitrogynia, but how can they market something that's already available inexpensively in leaf form? They can't make it better (extracts aren't better/as safe and full spectrum leaf has the best experience). They can't make it cheaper. How is their bottom line (PROFIT) going to benefit from testing?

IdiopathicPain247 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:14 am School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Universiti Sains Malaysia, Minden 11800, Penang, Malaysia

Basheer M, Khudhair Jasim R, Harn GL. Controversial usages of kratom (Mitragyna speciosa): For good or for evil. ... Nov. 2022

This is from Malaysia where you get 20 Years in Prison for kissing your partner in public... a Gay kiss anyway Man kissing a Woman in public only 5 years & "caning", beaten with a bamboo stick.

SO... Scientists, as usual, try to rise above "Religion" where a large # people and politicians are Conservative Muslim savages who see Kratom as "evil" or good...

Religion knows NO Science... just like Conservative Baptists here in USA, with their "savior" Ronald Rump. - Same problems in Indonesia... constant battle of science VS the cave dwellers who vote and control much of the Government.

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:22 pm The world WOULD be smart to test mitrogynia, but how can they market something that's already available inexpensively in leaf form? They can't make it better (extracts aren't better/as safe and full spectrum leaf has the best experience). They can't make it cheaper. How is their bottom line (PROFIT) going to benefit from testing?

Yeah, this.

Unless Big Pharma can make it proprietary they ain't interested. I *suppose* they could grow their own "amazing" strains that were so much better than anything the poor farmers could grow it would overpower that, but that takes a lot of time and isn't the most $$$ for them. So they are kind of caught in between a rock and a hard place - banning kratom makes sense to them and thus they keep pushing for it, but not *too* hard because the agenda is easy to expose.

I don't think I'll live long enough to see the conclusion of this battle. Probably a good things.

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 2:56 pm

IdiopathicPain247 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:14 am School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Universiti Sains Malaysia, Minden 11800, Penang, Malaysia

Basheer M, Khudhair Jasim R, Harn GL. Controversial usages of kratom (Mitragyna speciosa): For good or for evil. ... Nov. 2022

This is from Malaysia where you get 20 Years in Prison for kissing your partner in public... a Gay kiss anyway Man kissing a Woman in public only 5 years & "caning", beaten with a bamboo stick.

SO... Scientists, as usual, try to rise above "Religion" where a large # people and politicians are Conservative Muslim savages who see Kratom as "evil" or good...

Religion knows NO Science... just like Conservative Baptists here in USA, with their "savior" Ronald Rump. - Same problems in Indonesia... constant battle of science VS the cave dwellers who vote and control much of the Government.

What an absolute bunch of garbage. The main opponents of kratom in the U.S. are the ball garglers and nitwits with Ph.D.s in the "Follow The Science" crowd at the FDA, CDC, NIH, and DEA.

Their religion is atheistic materialism and it allows for no redemption or salvation, and if their limited reason cannot comprehend it, it either doesn't exist or is not important. They are normally dripping with sneering condescension toward anybody who doesn't put their full faith and trust in The Science(trademark symbol), and their intolerance of religion is matched only by their intolerance of dissent.

The world has been far more damaged by a coterie of preening, arrogant, power mad "Scientists" and technocrats over the last decade than the billions of people who believe in a God that is not themselves could have planned in their darkest dreams.

What OriginalLHB said

And The Science™ is just Alt + 0153 (on the numeric keypad on a Windows keyboard - no idea about phones or those Apple thingies )

So if this student of Pharmacy is from Malaysia he is not reliable? I am confused. I know about the conflicts with religion/money/science/state etc. This persons conclusions are positive towards Kratom use. Even there in the oppressive Muslim culture. How is what he saying BS? Or am I totally misunderstanding the direction this thread has taken. As Kratom users and vendors don't we want to here what "research" has to say. Maybe if there is enough scientific studies done, the truth will prevail? Probably not. I probably won't see anything get resolved in my lifetime. Collapse I can look forward to, and watch the world crumble day by day, and I am a naïve optimist!