Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

I've enjoyed kratom since 2016. And as many of y'all have found out, the longer you use kratom, the fewer strains give you that spark you're looking for. You can buy a kilo & find it's perfect for what you're looking for, then go & try a different strain for awhile. When you come back to the first perfect strain, it doesn't work anymore & never works again. Or you find that none of your 30 kilo stash works anymore. As Ballz & others discovered you need to take an extended break to refresh your receptors. But I've tried that several times & failed because I get severe panic attacks when I try. I ended up in a hospital stay from trying that. So what do you do?

I've been cutting my doses back slowly over the last year. My average dose a year ago was 2 to 2.5g unless I had a major pain issue where I'd go up to 4g or 5g doses. These days up until 3 weeks ago my average dose was about 1.75g. So I decided to cut back my doses again. I went down to 1g. I've done this for short periods, but never for this long. 3 weeks on this low dose. Every strain I've tried this week has worked wonderfully, including some real duds from years past. Not only that, the dose hits me in only about 5 minutes. This is great! I may never have buy any kratom again.

I'm very happy for you and I hope you take this the right way but... do you ever READ the forums here?

Because this has come up time and time again in threads. Recently (within the last month or so) there was a thread I either started or contributed to where it was noted that you *probably* never have to take a break but just reduce your dose down severely. And I can't count all the threads were we talk about how "less is more" and if you are dosing at 3 grams or more it REALLY helps to cut it in half. And then half again.

But, again, happy you've found this on your own and as a side note you might also (since you've probably missed it as well) realize that mixing strains is ALSO very helpful. At your dose try half a gram of something and half a gram of something else - doesn't even matter too much what. MOST mixes will work even better than one single batch (note however that many vendors sell ONLY or mostly mixes, so this method of mixture may not be as successful with those batches). There's something about a blend that increases just about every burn, and it's worth experimenting to see.

Thanks for sharing your discovery. I find it encouraging when someone shares how reducing their dose has worked for them. It seems that it takes weeks of reducing the dose to experience the benefits. I do read the forums, and the more this technique is shared, the more credibility it has for me . There are many threads in this forum that don't apply to me. I always keep an open mind though.
It took you a long time to get to such a low dose- you started a year ago? That takes commitment and patience. My mind is "stuck' in a belief that I Need 'x' amount, even though I know I'm lying to myself.. what you described is not so straightforward as simply saying "less is more". There are still sacrifices that need to be made, and determination to not give up and give in.
If you haven't tried blending, it's definitely worth it to try that. I've been blending for years, and I can attest that you CAN burn out of blends as well. I find that if 2 different strains don't work on their own, blending doesn't make them work again. But it's fun to do. There was synergy at one time, but it loses effect if you don't stay committed to rotating vendors

Hey, pray4, this is fantastic and excellent. I never thought of dropping my dose so low. Really food for thought. Just might try this!

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:29 pm I'm very happy for you and I hope you take this the right way but... do you ever READ the forums here?

No, I'm not on here much anymore, but when I am there's always folks saying they want names of things to potentiate because they don't get much from their kratom anymore, & some long-time fans have commented they're giving up on the green dust because they can't get any useful effects. Every time I come on here, probably once a month on average, there's posts about this. I haven't read anyone post about going 1g doses regularly so I thought someone might be interested. You aren't & I'm glad it all works perfectly for you. I've been a less-is-more proponent almost from the start, & I think it's great that Ballz revisits the topic somewhat regularly because there's still folks visiting on this forum & chawing down on 6 - 10g doses. And I profess my ignorance, not knowing every member here has great experiences with every dose of every strain these days. I guess you're right - I'm just behind the times & stupid, too.

I gradually brought my dose down to 0, and then started going negative. My sweet spot now seems to be about -3g.

This is interesting, I've been at about the 2.5 to 5g, make all my oblates 2.5g doses and just space them out more sometimes, but I think it still works, just not as noticeable most of the time. It's hard to conceive of less being better. I did try it once unsuccessfully but I believe those who say it works....for them.

pray4peace4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:15 pm

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:29 pm I'm very happy for you and I hope you take this the right way but... do you ever READ the forums here?

. I guess you're right - I'm just behind the times & stupid, too.

Nope. Not at all. Very helpful and motivating. Thanks!

boureka wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:42 am

pray4peace4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:15 pm

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:29 pm I'm very happy for you and I hope you take this the right way but... do you ever READ the forums here?

. I guess you're right - I'm just behind the times & stupid, too.

Nope. Not at all. Very helpful and motivating. Thanks!

Bless your soul. That was all sarcasm BTW so don't feel sorry for me. It's more fun than personal attacks.

Less is more is something this forum has pushed for a long time & I practiced it because it worked. I've NEVER read about anyone on this or any other forum regularly dosing at 1g because it's really really low. Like most people on here, I hit a big dead spot & found a way out of it without having to go cold turkey, & I'm finding it quite fun. The party-pooper guy seems to have missed the fine points.

Keep us posted. Very interested to know if you're able to maintain that dose over a longer period. I know Ballz doses around 1 gm, if memory serves, and spices it up every couple of days with a pinch of extract. (I've no experience with extract.) Very curious how this pans out for you.

pray4peace4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:15 pm I guess you're right - I'm just behind the times & stupid, too.

Now, don't overreact - I merely wanted to point out this isn't anything new and is something we talk about quite frequently. It never hurts to mention your own experiences, though.

I don't see MANY folks here talking about mega doses (to my mind anything over 6g) or even mega dose per day (taking, say 12+ grams per day). Mostly folks here are reasonable and those who do exceed reasonable recommendations come here asking for help. And then we mention cutting things in half, which is always the place to start.

And, as I said, I think your story is worth noting in terms of the fact that you don't need to go cold turkey for a reset. It's FAR easier for someone to take, say, a gram or less instead of not taking anything at all. Even if the effects aren't felt until three or four days it's just easier psychologically to keep dosing even if a very low level.

I guess the main part I was reacting to was the phrasing of your topic - yes, it's an interesting discovery, but one that *most* folks here have read about dozens of times. Always good to have reinforcement, though.

pray4peace4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:15 pm I've been a less-is-more proponent almost from the start, & I think it's great that Ballz revisits the topic somewhat regularly because there's still folks visiting on this forum & chawing down on 6 - 10g doses.

hey Pray man, good to see ya posting! yes I got upto 7 grams x 3 = 20g per day for a brief period... I'm like WTH am I doing ?? Tapered it down in stages. For a while I stuck to 2.5g then finally over a year ago, IIRC I'd taken a short break and figured... why not start back @ One freakin' gram, known quality favorite. It worked!

Now, my thing is: Variable Dosing Schedule... I was gonna Reply to the thread on "Rotating".. it's deciding when, what Time of Day, you most enjoy kratom ? For me that's afternoon - Of course kratom's great any time, But. I figured early morning I'm busy getting up and really don't need a MAX serving then - Only the regular 1g with my shot of Caffeine (Red Bull or other energy drink,)... So I now enjoy basically a "Double" a couple hours after Lunch... I DO that usually with extract. Extra alkaloids - carefully measured of course!

And not every day - Just "most days" now... What I find is, my Daily Total is still low, 5g or less... But my system has adapted to the 1g level, so the "shock" of 2-3 grams really hits nicely !! And maybe people are doing that already ? I used to just weigh/ measure the exact same Serving, all day every day - which can get boring ? So, Skipping doses/ Double doses = better strategy... And the world of extracts has really opened up in 2023

Prayin' for Peace ! definitely needed these days!

Nice! This post hits me at the right time, feel like a cut back is in order for me as well. I just feel I been kind of stuck lately at my dosage and cut backs have been a nice move in the past. Glad to hear its working for ya!

When I take a break, my break is actually 1g in the morning and 1g at night. I'll do this for a week or so then go back up to 2 grams 2 or 3 times a day. I've never stayed at the 1g mark for very long. I don't have the willpower

Nelson Baboon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:22 pm I gradually brought my dose down to 0, and then started going negative. My sweet spot now seems to be about -3g.

Sounds a little negative.

Hey..just wondering, to op, how many times/day you dose.

Eu4oric906 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 8:11 pm Nice! This post hits me at the right time, feel like a cut back is in order for me as well. I just feel I been kind of stuck lately at my dosage and cut backs have been a nice move in the past. Glad to hear its working for ya!

Same here, I think the variant in dosage and frequency of dosing for me, need to altered, I'm going to try that same approach I've been reading on posts from Kellytoons, and many other knowledgeable friends on this forum. Thank you for sharing!

So i cut my doses in half last week and also took fewer doses. It helped, I felt more from each and decided to do it this week as well.

mivanqua wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:25 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:22 pm I gradually brought my dose down to 0, and then started going negative. My sweet spot now seems to be about -3g.

Sounds a little negative.

rofl

pray4peace4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:03 pm I've enjoyed kratom since 2016. And as many of y'all have found out, the longer you use kratom, the fewer strains give you that spark you're looking for. You can buy a kilo & find it's perfect for what you're looking for, then go & try a different strain for awhile. When you come back to the first perfect strain, it doesn't work anymore & never works again. Or you find that none of your 30 kilo stash works anymore. As Ballz & others discovered you need to take an extended break to refresh your receptors. But I've tried that several times & failed because I get severe panic attacks when I try. I ended up in a hospital stay from trying that. So what do you do?

I've been cutting my doses back slowly over the last year. My average dose a year ago was 2 to 2.5g unless I had a major pain issue where I'd go up to 4g or 5g doses. These days up until 3 weeks ago my average dose was about 1.75g. So I decided to cut back my doses again. I went down to 1g. I've done this for short periods, but never for this long. 3 weeks on this low dose. Every strain I've tried this week has worked wonderfully, including some real duds from years past. Not only that, the dose hits me in only about 5 minutes. This is great! I may never have buy any kratom again.

What did the doctors say at the hospital? Was it just a matter of calming down? I’m stopping cold turkey this month so wanna know what I could be in for. How many gpd were you at when you attempted said break that ended in the bad panic attack?

oftheshire wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:51 pm

What did the doctors say at the hospital? Was it just a matter of calming down? I’m stopping cold turkey this month so wanna know what I could be in for. How many gpd were you at when you attempted said break that ended in the bad panic attack?

Shire, remember the difference between withdrawal (which I know you're concerned about) and withholding treatment. So if you're treating, say, anxiety or pain and it returns when you stop the kratom, well.. that's not necessarily withdrawal. I had miserable cravings when I took a break. No physical symptoms.. but a dependency, nevertheless. Either way tho, always better to taper off something unless it's something like nicotine, in which case, run! Personally, I'd time it so by the time I got on that plane, I had some distance from kratom. Have fun in Europe!

worst case scenario is restless legs. but since you have time, taper now and you'll be fine for the trip
1

IndelibleDotInk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:54 pm worst case scenario is restless legs. but since you have time, taper now and you'll be fine for the trip
1

Thank u salute

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:33 pm

oftheshire wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:51 pm

What did the doctors say at the hospital? Was it just a matter of calming down? I’m stopping cold turkey this month so wanna know what I could be in for. How many gpd were you at when you attempted said break that ended in the bad panic attack?

Shire, remember the difference between withdrawal (which I know you're concerned about) and withholding treatment. So if you're treating, say, anxiety or pain and it returns when you stop the kratom, well.. that's not necessarily withdrawal. I had miserable cravings when I took a break. No physical symptoms.. but a dependency, nevertheless. Either way tho, always better to taper off something unless it's something like nicotine, in which case, run! Personally, I'd time it so by the time I got on that plane, I had some distance from kratom. Have fun in Europe!

Makes sense to me, thank u sm

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 2:51 pm Hey..just wondering, to op, how many times/day you dose.

3 times a day. I have to take a dose near bedtime or I wake up at 4 am with WD. Yes, even at 1g dosing! Been on the green goo for 7 years. So you asked how it's going. Really well actually. Almost every strain has come alive for me, with a few exceptions. As always... the first dose of the day is the best. I just got around to trying my most favorite of all time strain, PMD from Kratom Crums, which I haven't used for 4 years. Blew me away! I was simultaneously very happy, full of productive energy, & euphoric. That's a rare combination when you're 71 years old. I got a ton of tree trimming done yesterday, so much that my wife asked me "How the heck did you do all that yourself?" I've never had another strain like that one. It's unique. My wife made me promise to rest today. I have to admit I was looking hard for the best pain-relieving strain I could find, & Smiley Time Red Bali was perfect for that, but I did cheat & take a 2.5g dose today... twice. I really needed that bad.

Going back through all my old strains... kratom was really different back then. There was a wider range of differences. Reds in particular were stronger back then. The norm today seems to be fast/daytime reds. Sleepy time reds are almost impossible to find these days, at least for me. 3 months ago I ordered a Red Borneo with 1.86% mitragynine. It's like taking 3 caffeine pills & is very uncomfortable. Red strains in 2016 & 17 weren't like that at all. I suspect it's because all the old leaves from older trees are gone & it's younger plantation trees that are replacing them. Just speculation...

I'm down to 1.5. I'll try dropping it further. Inspirational!