Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

I like to experiment... especially when I have problems that need solving. My current problem is that I've run out of all my sedating reds & can't seem to find any. My recent purchases from STH of what were my go-to reds, Red Smile & Red Bali#1, weren't sedating at all, in fact they were very stimulating. Seasonal changes in the kratom quality is inevitable. And they were stimulating in a way that I really didn't like, meaning made me jittery & very uncomfortable. None of my other 40 strains are slow reds so I was kinda stuck. Time to experiment!

I put 50g of STH Red Smile, jittery version, into a pyrex bread pan, put in enough hot water to make a slurry the consistency of heavy cream, wrapped it shut with Stretchtite plastic wrap, & put it out in the hot sun, shaking it up every 20 minutes. After 3 hours I brought it in. It had turned from bright green to dark muddy brown.
I put about 2 teaspoons into a 1/4 cup hot water & drank it. It didn't taste like kratom at all, but was very mild. My goal was to get rid of the jitters & hopefully turn it into something useful. It surprised me.

30 minutes later, while reading a book, it seemed like what I read was unusually interesting. I started thinking about what I read & how to apply it, ways to tweak it to work better, then how unusually interesting this book was, & then I realized the kratom was affecting me. I definitely didn't feel jittery, but I didn't feel euphoric either. Everything became really interesting. It was really kinda weird. So I spent the next 3 hours pondering all sorts of things & had a darn good time. I've never had a kratom experience like that before, but it was really fun. So I thought I'd toss this out there for any of you who also like to experiment & have some strains you really don't like. Maybe it'll surprise you, too.

One thing we know for sure - to get sedative effects the amount of kratom needs to be higher, maybe MUCH higher than "normal".

Determining that "normality" is, of course, the trick. But if you find any kratom isn't giving you sleeptime the first thing I'd do is up the dose (maybe even doubling it).

I could be mistaken or simply mixing something up, but isn’t baking it in the sun how they create “yellow” strains? I remember reading something about drying kratom in the sun vs. drying indoors to achieve different results.

There’s also some info out there that suggests sunlight oxidizes mitragynine into 7-hydroxymitragynine.

I’ll have to do some research here to find the specific studies.

Hippie did this with some RVA Green Bali, but she let it sit out in the sun for the whole summer apparently. She sent me some of both for fun, and the LAST word i would use to describe the taste is "mild.' Haha!
Effects wise, I didn't notice a lot of difference, but the color was DEFINITELY different.

To e-poison, years ago i read (probably on reddit so who tf knows) that golds were reds finished in the sun and yellows were whites finished in the sun.

Then somewhere else i read that its all mixing of differently finished kratomses. Again, who tf knows? THE MYSTERY RETURNS (as literally ALWAYS with this stuff.)

Kelleytoons i assume you got your package? I haven't checked. I was just talking to the guy that grew the one that's all together, and i think I'm going to start growing those myself for a lark. They definitely cleanse the old noggin' but its not always fun or easy, but nothing ever is, you know? I hope it gives you what you're looking for and i mean that.

As for the rest of you, i love you all and hope all is well out there.

mivanqua wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 4:48 am
Then somewhere else i read that its all mixing of differently finished kratomses. Again, who tf knows? THE MYSTERY RETURNS (as literally ALWAYS with this stuff.)

Well at risk of being all pseudo scientific... and/or "down to earth" I decided awhile back that ~ Kratom is kratom and ~ there IS NO evidence that Sun drying, oxidizing, or fermenting... Really does anything, except, turn Good kratom... into Bad or weak kratom. At least as far as the alkaloids are concerned ??

At least that's what Research has given, or proven ? Those science guys, McCurdy, Grundmann, et al. HAVE stated that, they can't find any difference Alkaloid wise ~ it's easy to show that Sun dried powder ~ has LESS alkaloids overall and ~ the minor alkaloids are made weaker same as the major alkaloids ? Sure, Color and Taste are different... But the whole myth about, Red = stronger.... just another silly thing started by vendors years ago, to create a fake "variety" because Americans love to spend more of their $ USA $ dollars IF they have more choices.

Now I do like what Kelley is saying here ~ Sedative effects may result from large servings... Which might suggest the opposite: IF your usual Serving size is X grams, then doing much LESS may result in Stimulant effects ?? Which are really normal effects of kratom at a baseline dose. Kratom being naturally uplifting and pain relieving, with a touch of euphoria. YMMV of course!

My Suggestion: Try the combo Kratom and Kava, for more of a sedative buzz and for sure, a different feel - Those popular little blue bottles "Feel Free" sold in many head-shops (and 7-11 Stores in California!) are like Half n Half, kratom Kava shots... The company: Botanic Tonics, got sued in CA by people who didn't read the Label, and started abusing the product - doing like 20 TIMES the Recommended Serving!! LOL there's even a Reddit group called Quitting Feel Free.

Of course... you could ALSO smoke, true Indica weed - and have some CBD - which would be VERY sedating!!!

Ballz... I can't stand weed. I used it when I was in college 50 years ago, but now I find it makes me feel awful.

Regardless of research, which I've read about myself, I was trying to get rid of the jitteriness from said kratom, & it did do that. But , no, it didn't make it euphoric. Besides which, McCurdy's already found that blood plasma converts mitragynine into 7-hydroxymitragynine & I wasn't attempting that. But ... having had biochemistry in college, I knew that some or one of those other alkyloids might become oxidated if I put them in water in sunlight(the water providing the oxygen ions for the chemical reaction). The change of color of kratom by sunlight is an oxidative reaction & I wanted to see what I could accomplish. Later on at night I did get quite sleepy, for which I was very thankful. I took a much smaller dose the next morning & after an hour I couldn't keep my eyes open & went back to sleep. So I feel I had some success.

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:20 pm

mivanqua wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 4:48 am
Then somewhere else i read that its all mixing of differently finished kratomses. Again, who tf knows? THE MYSTERY RETURNS (as literally ALWAYS with this stuff.)

Well at risk of being all pseudo scientific... and/or "down to earth" I decided awhile back that ~ Kratom is kratom and ~ there IS NO evidence that Sun drying, oxidizing, or fermenting... Really does anything, except, turn Good kratom... into Bad or weak kratom. At least as far as the alkaloids are concerned ??

At least that's what Research has given, or proven ? Those science guys, McCurdy, Grundmann, et al. HAVE stated that, they can't find any difference Alkaloid wise ~ it's easy to show that Sun dried powder ~ has LESS alkaloids overall and ~ the minor alkaloids are made weaker same as the major alkaloids ? Sure, Color and Taste are different... But the whole myth about, Red = stronger.... just another silly thing started by vendors years ago, to create a fake "variety" because Americans love to spend more of their $ USA $ dollars IF they have more choices.

Now I do like what Kelley is saying here ~ Sedative effects may result from large servings... Which might suggest the opposite: IF your usual Serving size is X grams, then doing much LESS may result in Stimulant effects ?? Which are really normal effects of kratom at a baseline dose. Kratom being naturally uplifting and pain relieving, with a touch of euphoria. YMMV of course!

My Suggestion: Try the combo Kratom and Kava, for more of a sedative buzz and for sure, a different feel - Those popular little blue bottles "Feel Free" sold in many head-shops (and 7-11 Stores in California!) are like Half n Half, kratom Kava shots... The company: Botanic Tonics, got sued in CA by people who didn't read the Label, and started abusing the product - doing like 20 TIMES the Recommended Serving!! LOL there's even a Reddit group called Quitting Feel Free.

Of course... you could ALSO smoke, true Indica weed - and have some CBD - which would be VERY sedating!!!

I brought this exact thing up in a Reddit thread in the main kratom sub a couple days ago and got downvoted many times haha someone commented back saying McCurdy would never say that Then goes on a long rant about reds being stronger because of the secondary alkaloids after oxidation/fermentation. I don’t think we’ll ever lose these old talking points

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 10:16 pm One thing we know for sure - to get sedative effects the amount of kratom needs to be higher, maybe MUCH higher than "normal".

Determining that "normality" is, of course, the trick. But if you find any kratom isn't giving you sleeptime the first thing I'd do is up the dose (maybe even doubling it).

No we do not know that for sure. I experience otherwise but I don't need to convince, waste effort or recruit anyone.

Well, we do - the research (and there IS some, including from the University of Florida right here in my home state) proves it.

But - you can believe what you want (that's the great thing about beliefs - you don't need any facts to believe something :>).