Can’t sleep after Kratom. Anyone else?

[Renob]

I’ve read numerous reviews, threads, posts, etc all over the place with people naming strains and saying that they’re good for bedtime or cause sedation. I’ve tried plenty of reds and a few that I know have been fermented and I’ve yet to find anything that makes me tired or even allows me to sleep. It doesn’t matter the strain or the dosage; it seems as if I take anything after 5-6 pm, I’m up ultra late and sometimes can’t sleep at all.

I normally am asleep by 11:15 on most nights, but if I happen to dose too late I’m up with my brain racing.

Last night I tried 5 grams of “Red Gold” mixed with 4 grams of a red bentuangie from a different supplier at 8 PM. Nine grams is kind of high but I thought that it would bring me some restful sleep having it be my third dose of the day. The result? I was up until 3 AM with “racy brain” . For reference, I usually dose around 6-7 grams at 8-9 am and another 6-7 gram dose of something different at around 3 pm. This has worked great for anxiety relief, anti depressant, pain relief and for controlling my IBS. The problem is that I can’t seem to fall asleep now.

Am I in the minority or are there others that experience the same thing? Do you guys take Kratom late? How much? Does it ever work for sedation and sleep?

Thanks!

[Renob]

Sorry for the double post. I accidentally posted this topic twice

[add to descartes]

that happened to me the first year or so of taking kratom daily. I would have to make sure I didn't dose too late because it definitely impaired my sleep, no matter what strain.

after awhile, something changed, and I started getting really good sleep with it. I don't dose right before bed, I'll take it 2-3 hours before. I notice sometimes after it wears off in the middle of the night, I'll wake up, sometimes from a nightmare, and not be able to get back to sleep until I take 2-3 grams. now I pretty much need it to sleep; it will be hard for me to fall asleep without it.

[Kelleytoons]

I think there are two things about kratom that help with sleep - first, it can ease your pain (wherever that may be) and thus keep the pain from keeping you from sleeping, and the other effect is the calming nature that some folks describe as "sedation" but is more of a mellow, peaceful feeling where the cares of the day recede into the distance.

And then there is kratom that definitely provides the kind of lift caffeine does, which keeps your mind racing and heart thumping, or at least provides extra energy that is certainly NOT helpful for sleep.

Some strains provide all of these effects, some only one or two, but if the strain has any of the energetic/"fast" effects it's not going to let you sleep. The problem is it's hard to find out which is which without experimentation. It's certainly not as easy as "reds v. whites" although I think that's a good place to start. For me, because this old body is worn out and never really out of pain I find a good dose an hour before I go to bed is a really Good Thing. But - I take capsules and it takes about an hour before I feel ANY effects from any kratom.

With that right strain, though, the pain is relieved and I'm calm and I sleep sometimes right through the night, which is very unusual for me. But I don't do it every night (mostly on the days that have been extra difficult).

[Renob]

I think there are two things about kratom that help with sleep - first, it can ease your pain (wherever that may be) and thus keep the pain from keeping you from sleeping, and the other effect is the calming nature that some folks describe as "sedation" but is more of a mellow, peaceful feeling where the cares of the day recede into the distance.

And then there is kratom that definitely provides the kind of lift caffeine does, which keeps your mind racing and heart thumping, or at least provides extra energy that is certainly NOT helpful for sleep.

Some strains provide all of these effects, some only one or two, but if the strain has any of the energetic/"fast" effects it's not going to let you sleep. The problem is it's hard to find out which is which without experimentation. It's certainly not as easy as "reds v. whites" although I think that's a good place to start. For me, because this old body is worn out and never really out of pain I find a good dose an hour before I go to bed is a really Good Thing. But - I take capsules and it takes about an hour before I feel ANY effects from any kratom.

With that right strain, though, the pain is relieved and I'm calm and I sleep sometimes right through the night, which is very unusual for me. But I don't do it every night (mostly on the days that have been extra difficult).

Good advice again! Thanks! It seems as though you’re one of the resident experts (or maybe THE resident expert ) on this forum ! I guess it really does warrant experimentation before I find what works best for me for each situation. So many articles, threads vendors, etc make it sound as simple as “Whites & Greens make you energetic and Reds make you sleepy” which hasn’t been the case for me!

When I first started with Kratom (about 8 years ago) the only selections available were green and red! I took a 5+ year break from Kratom until a few months ago and all of a sudden there are soooo many vendors, variates and catchy names. I really don’t have the money that I need to try all of the different kids that I’m curious about but hopefully someday….

Out of curiosity, Kelley, how many different vendors do you regularly rotate your kratom from and what are your 3-4 favorites right now?

[Kelleytoons]

First of all - I'm FAR from the expert. Really and truly. I may write more than some folks here now, but that's probably because I tend to visit forums and write in my spare time which, being retired, is most likely a lot more than most. I'm trying to learn like everyone is, and there are some truly wonderful experts here (one of my favs is LoveandPeace, but it's hard to overlook those folks who have posted here thousands of times, like Mr. B). I suspect you just need to spend more time here reading and soon you'll find the folks you like the most, or at least make the most sense to you.

As for vendors, right at the moment there's no question that Otie's is my favorite of the ones I can order from. TFH (Texas Family Harvest) is probably head and shoulders above everyone, but they are members only and you have to give up your right and left arms to become one (actually even that won't do it). But you can always try the Trading Post if there is some stuff you are seeking. I also like Lucky's (again a membership although a bit easier to become a member, since I'm one). Liza (non-membership) is good, and so is Sakti. (And I also love Denette but, again, membership - Trading Post can be your friend).

So you can see I buy from a LOT of vendors - I think I have around 10 in my rotation but it might be slightly more. I also have WAY too much (as do a lot of us who have far more money than perhaps wisdom :>).

[terposton]

I’ve read numerous reviews, threads, posts, etc all over the place with people naming strains and saying that they’re good for bedtime or cause sedation. I’ve tried plenty of reds and a few that I know have been fermented and I’ve yet to find anything that makes me tired or even allows me to sleep. It doesn’t matter the strain or the dosage; it seems as if I take anything after 5-6 pm, I’m up ultra late and sometimes can’t sleep at all.

I normally am asleep by 11:15 on most nights, but if I happen to dose too late I’m up with my brain racing.

Last night I tried 5 grams of “Red Gold” mixed with 4 grams of a red bentuangie from a different supplier at 8 PM. Nine grams is kind of high but I thought that it would bring me some restful sleep having it be my third dose of the day. The result? I was up until 3 AM with “racy brain” . For reference, I usually dose around 6-7 grams at 8-9 am and another 6-7 gram dose of something different at around 3 pm. This has worked great for anxiety relief, anti depressant, pain relief and for controlling my IBS. The problem is that I can’t seem to fall asleep now.

Am I in the minority or are there others that experience the same thing? Do you guys take Kratom late? How much? Does it ever work for sedation and sleep?

Thanks!

I've been a daily kratom user for over 6 years and my advice is to not take kratom in the evening. Kratom is a stimulant and while some have to take it in the evening for chronic pain, I do not because it never helps me sleep (I have terrible insomnia) and it will mess with your tolerance if you take kratom too many times in a day. I have never had to take a tolerance break because of how I regulate my dosage. I only dose during approx an 8 hour span during the day and then go approx 16 hours without any. I will dose about 8am and my last dose at 4pm. I do this for my tolerance and also I drink a lot of water in between doses because it helps the kratom work better and it helps you not to get constipated. If for some reason I'm going out with friends and am going to have a late night, I may occasionally take a later dose but then the next day I take my first dose later.
You do have a experiment to find what is best for you. I mostly take whites and greens. Occasionally I will take a red but again, everyone is different. Good luck!

[add to descartes]

Kratom is a stimulant and while some have to take it in the evening for chronic pain, I do not because it never helps me sleep (I have terrible insomnia) and it will mess with your tolerance if you take kratom too many times in a day. I have never had to take a tolerance break because of how I regulate my dosage. I only dose during approx an 8 hour span during the day and then go approx 16 hours without any. I will dose about 8am and my last dose at 4pm. I do this for my tolerance and also I drink a lot of water in between doses because it helps the kratom work better and it helps you not to get constipated. If for some reason I'm going out with friends and am going to have a late night, I may occasionally take a later dose but then the next day I take my first dose later.
You do have a experiment to find what is best for you. I mostly take whites and greens. Occasionally I will take a red but again, everyone is different. Good luck!

in general, kratom can be stimulating (fast) in lower doses, but sedating (slow) in larger ones. and there are definitely strains/batches that cause sedation/relaxation, without stimulation. it really all depends on the strain/batch.

[terposton]

Kratom is a stimulant and while some have to take it in the evening for chronic pain, I do not because it never helps me sleep (I have terrible insomnia) and it will mess with your tolerance if you take kratom too many times in a day. I have never had to take a tolerance break because of how I regulate my dosage. I only dose during approx an 8 hour span during the day and then go approx 16 hours without any. I will dose about 8am and my last dose at 4pm. I do this for my tolerance and also I drink a lot of water in between doses because it helps the kratom work better and it helps you not to get constipated. If for some reason I'm going out with friends and am going to have a late night, I may occasionally take a later dose but then the next day I take my first dose later.
You do have a experiment to find what is best for you. I mostly take whites and greens. Occasionally I will take a red but again, everyone is different. Good luck!

in general, kratom can be stimulating (fast) in lower doses, but sedating (slow) in larger ones. and there are definitely strains/batches that cause sedation/relaxation, without stimulation. it really all depends on the strain/batch.

After over 6 years of using kratom daily, I've never had a strain or batch that made me sleep. Relax yes but never sedation enough to sleep. If you don't have chronic insomnia that may work for you but not for others. Ballzdeep gave this advice years ago. Also, I think you will get yourself in trouble with tolerance if you are dosing around the clock.

[Lokey]

I could never sleep if I took kratom too late in the day but what happens with me is delayed sedation effect, I'm wide awake at night into wee hours but once I fall asleep I cannot get up in the morning. I sleep very deeply and have weird dreams and just cannot get up. I do take a small piece of prescribed anxiety med late at night to help me fall asleep. I have found if I take more kratom than usual during the day and some st night it does now sometimes make my eyes very heavy and cause me to nod off and wake up repeatedly.

[Kelleytoons]

Goes to show how very different we all are.

On days when my pain is too much (mostly tennis days) I really can't sleep without my nighttime dose. Note - I don't dose more than twice a day. Ever. So - once before tennis, and then, an hour or two before I go to bed (always keeping in mind that I take capsules so effect is delayed).

I understand the advice not to dose at night in an effort to keep from doing too much. I also understand the idea that if you are sleeping what is the point of using kratom? But the problem is if you have pain then you NEED some relief to otherwise get to sleep.

And - I've written it elsewhere but it bears repeating - there are two very distinctive problems with insomnia. One is when you can't get to sleep because your body needs some "soothing" and the other is when your mind is overly active. You can have both at the same time, but they ARE distinct and it often happens to have one without the other. For folks who wake up at night and start "thinking" using kratom isn't going to help. In those cases the effective thing to do (even if it doesn't seem so) is to get out of bed and do something else. Anything else but preferably not something requiring a lot of thought (thus reading is NOT recommended - but watching television is, as Marshall McLuhan once noted). When you have distracted your mind enough you'll get sleepy.

But if, like a lot of us, pain is keeping you awake then kratom is really ideal. And it works consistently for me across a WIDE variety of strains. Indeed, for me it's a rare strain that DOESN'T let me sleep well (because I get soothing pain relief AND a kind of mellowness).

Finally, I'm also aware that those of you still in the workforce and having to worry about things like a mortgage or such probably have far more difficulty falling asleep than us old, retirees, who can barely stay awake anyway. I can literally fall asleep anywhere, at any time, assuming I'm not in pain. I can (and have) fallen asleep at my keyboard typing things. As a matter of fact...

[Rickarilla]

I find that kratom is one of the only things that helps me sleep. I use to dose a few times a day but I'm now strictly dosing in the evenings to help with my rls and sleep. I find it completely takes away my restless legs. I keep my dosage low 1 tsp.

[dimmitree]

No, I always used it to sleep. Kind of a different situation with me, though, as I was withdrawing off of benzos, alcohol, and opioids when I started using kratom and kratom was the only reason I would sleep. I take it about an hour or two before bed now and sleep through the night, no problem.

That said, I think if I took 9 whole grams an hour before bed, I wouldn't sleep either. That's a huge dose.

[add to descartes]

After over 6 years of using kratom daily, I've never had a strain or batch that made me sleep. Relax yes but never sedation enough to sleep. If you don't have chronic insomnia that may work for you but not for others. Ballzdeep gave this advice years ago. Also, I think you will get yourself in trouble with tolerance if you are dosing around the clock.

I've taken the same amount of kratom every day for years. I don't take it "around the clock," I take the same dose several times a day, at more or less the same times. I don't have issues with my tolerance going up from where I'm at now. I probably take more than most people, but it's what works for me. not that this has anything to do with what op asked.

[MetalMamaRocks]

After over 6 years of using kratom daily, I've never had a strain or batch that made me sleep. Relax yes but never sedation enough to sleep. If you don't have chronic insomnia that may work for you but not for others. Ballzdeep gave this advice years ago. Also, I think you will get yourself in trouble with tolerance if you are dosing around the clock.

I've taken the same amount of kratom every day for years. I don't take it "around the clock," I take the same dose several times a day, at more or less the same times. I don't have issues with my tolerance going up from where I'm at now. I probably take more than most people, but it's what works for me. not that this has anything to do with what op asked.

I've also been using kratom for over 6 years and been on the same dose for 4. I take from 4 to 8 grams a day depending on my pain level, but I never go over 8. I have to take my last dose around 2 hours before bed. Any closer and it'll keep me awake.

[Daydreamsofmountains]

I had some crushing insomnia return earlier this summer and while kratom taken before I go to bed doesn’t seem to help, on the nights when it is the wee hours of the night and my sleeping pills haven’t worked, a double dose of Kratom almost always will put me to sleep. I am really trying not to make it a daily thing but I gotta sleep and I figure once I get back to actually sleeping more than 3-4 hours a night, I can address it more meaningfully. But I am kind of in survival mode sleep wise right now.

[Kelleytoons]

(Trying not to lecture here but, sigh, old parental man): Remember that it's unlikely it will hurt you in any way to miss a night or two's sleep. In fact, that's the best way to cure insomnia. If you can't sleep, get up and do something else. Don't worry about it.

They've done a LOT of testing and skipping a night's sleep even for jobs where it might be considered a problem (like test pilots) does not hurt anyone or anyone's performance, mentally OR physically. Now - not sleeping at all for three or four days can definitely be a problem, but that's usually self-regulating (in that when your head hits the pillow after a night or two without sleep you'll literally sleep like a baby. Well, not a crying one, but you get the idea).

[Daydreamsofmountains]

(Trying not to lecture here but, sigh, old parental man): Remember that it's unlikely it will hurt you in any way to miss a night or two's sleep. In fact, that's the best way to cure insomnia. If you can't sleep, get up and do something else. Don't worry about it.

They've done a LOT of testing and skipping a night's sleep even for jobs where it might be considered a problem (like test pilots) does not hurt anyone or anyone's performance, mentally OR physically. Now - not sleeping at all for three or four days can definitely be a problem, but that's usually self-regulating (in that when your head hits the pillow after a night or two without sleep you'll literally sleep like a baby. Well, not a crying one, but you get the idea).

I have had insomnia issues due to GAD my whole life. Unfortunately I am at 3+ months of averaging that a night. Your point is valid but beyond where I am at now. Regardless of what I do unless I take heavy duty sleep meds. I have a sleep specialist appointment next week but I can’t function working full time and as a mom of two very active boys without more sleep at this point.