Lab testing interpretation/concern w kratom

[Eu4oric906]

Just curious how hard core people are over lab results. I was looking over a 3rd party lab report for a popular vendors latest batch and saw like 0.3 ppm arsenic and like 0.4 ppm for lead. Obviously they proudly publish said results but not sure how concerned i should be when i see hits for contaminants. Figured this would be a good place to ask.

[IndelibleDotInk]

ask Jfish or other oldtimers/braniacs/. in the biz.

[Kelleytoons]

Since rice has 18.4 ppm arsenic (and is one of the primary grains consumed in most countries) and since most folks eat around 100x the amount of rice per day as they do Kratom I'm not sure I'd worry even one whit about arsenic levels in Kratom.

Milk, eggs, meat, fish and shellfish in this country average around .03 ppm lead so that's more troublesome. But, again, folks consume LARGE quantities of those things compared to 2 or 3 grams of Kratom so I'm guessing it might be comparable (IOW, if you eat any of those things in a day it's likely to add up to the same levels in that Kratom you'd take in a day). Still - not a Good Thing, particularly for those of you who are younger (at my age I don't worry one whit as I won't possibly live long enough to be affected by this kind of stuff).

[Eu4oric906]

Thanks for the nice response, suppose its all about perspective. Kinda figured that unless you eat 100% organic farm to table and even then you are ingesting some nasties. Also pretty cool that your an older person who loves kratom. Im 53 myself, thanks again.

[Kelleytoons]

LOL - my daughter is about your age.

If if were as young as you I could rule the world (a bit too late for that now, however :>).

[Eu4oric906]

LOL - my daughter is about your age.

If if were as young as you I could rule the world (a bit too late for that now, however :>).

Thats awesome, how long you been taking kratom? Were you seeking pain relief or something else?

[Kelleytoons]

I've been taking it about a year. Prior to that I was taking a LOT of opioids (all prescribed, but my doc was a bit, ahem, generous when it came to scripts - I still have hundreds sitting on my shelf). They weren't doing it for me and, worse, I was starting to drink a lot of alcohol in an effort to dull my pain of being old (trust me, if I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself).

I watched Hamilton Morris' Pharmacopeia with a show on Kratom and thought, why the hell not? And it was my salvation - not only did I completely stop opioids, I only drink once a week (some wine with a meal on the weekend).

It allows me to play tennis pain free, and to sleep at night. I don't abuse - I take around 3 grams per dose and never more than two doses a day (and I sometimes skip days when I'm not playing tennis or otherwise feeling better). But without it the quality of my life would be SO much less.

[Eu4oric906]

Good for you! Its so nice to hear peoples stories and glad you got off the pills. I havent always taken care of myself, I too drank way to much for quite awhile.

At 50 i decided i needed a different path to feeling better and started working out and eating cleaner. Though i love food, and dont completely give up anything just moderation. Lost a bunch of weight feel really good and discovered kratom about 3 years ago.

I use it for relaxation and anxiety relief and like you take precaution to not let it run me. Im about a 3.5 gram per dose 2-3 times a day with at least 1-2 days where i stay off it. No extracts just powder. My sport is golf and the reduced weight has really allowed me to play with far less pain or problems. Thanks for sharing your story.

[BallzDeep9]

Just curious how hard core people are over lab results. I was looking over a 3rd party lab report for a popular vendors latest batch and saw like 0.3 ppm arsenic and like 0.4 ppm for lead.

Metals - concern over Metals, is different from microbials - Metals ARE present in just about everything... . So it's the LEVEL - and California's Proposition 65 IS the most strict of any state. You're concerned ?? Start googling, and doing the math. Ready for a few HOURS of Research ?? OK then. Start Here: https://cwclabs.com/HeavyMetalsStandards.html

It's different for every Lab Test, every batch every vendor. I guarantee you - Nobody Here, knows anything or is going to spoon feed you the knowlege. Sorry. You'll have to research AHPA standards, and apply that to the Lab Test in question.

I CAN tell you this. I DID do the math, awhile back, and - The Metals (Lead, etc.) were WELL within allowable limits.... for MY consumption. 6 gpd or less. BUT! were just OVER the Limit... for those choking down 20 grams per day!! Yes. Those who take HUGE doses of kratom, are getting too much Lead. Those who stick to "Less Is More"... are FINE!

[Eu4oric906]

Just was curious what the general room feel was like. How concerned folks might be. i am not overwhelmingly concerned, but I like weighing opinions and value health education. So good place to start.

I actually work for a consulting firm with an environmental department, not my department or area of expertise but planning on initiating some dialogue with select non judgmental coworkers. I do know enough to realize any threshold values aren't magic numbers. Exposure carries risk. Thanks for your contribution.

[dimmitree]

Well, if I understand correctly that ppm to ug/g are the same, there are .3ug in 1 g of kratom from their test results. You can have 10ug of lead per day in supplements, so even my hefty daily dose of 15-20g still falls under the recommended daily maximum in supplements. Unless you're taking over an oz, those test results shouldn't worry you. Just stick to trustworthy vendors and you will be fine. I'd be more worried about the water we're drinking these days than the kratom we're taking.

[kwest13]

LOL - my daughter is about your age.

If if were as young as you I could rule the world (a bit too late for that now, however :>).

You are the dad of a 53 year old??! You are active on here, speak perfectly, and play tennis? Do you have superman genes?

[Kelleytoons]

You are the dad of a 53 year old??! You are active on here, speak perfectly, and play tennis? Do you have superman genes?

LOL - once upon a time I thought I was at least Batman...

Look, part of it is picking your parents carefully (so, good genes). The part you can control, of course, is eating properly and exercising and not doing the things that are destructive. For the latter I've been remarkably lucky, as many in my generation were a bit more self-destructive (I never drank until I was in my 40's, and I never smoked. This latter is particularly significant - smoking ages you tremendously. We had next door neighbors only ten years older and in taking them to the hospital the folks there thought my wife and I were their parents. But they were chain smokers. And they both died at what is my age now, and neither one of them could have walked much, let alone play tennis).

Father Time is undefeated, so there is only so much you can do. But you only have to look at Tom Brady and see what is possible. I AM slowing down - I played tennis five days a week as little as five years ago, but after a knee replacement I find that two or three days is about all I can manage well, which sucks. But I'm not dead yet and I have high hopes to live a while yet (both my great grandparents died in the 100's).

[add to descartes]

ugh... Hamilton's pharmacopeia is the worst. the most pretentious drug user ever

[Kelleytoons]

Well, let's agree to disagree. I loved his show and that episode changed my life so he's tops in my book but I can understand him having some detractors.

[Eu4oric906]

Well, if I understand correctly that ppm to ug/g are the same, there are .3ug in 1 g of kratom from their test results. You can have 10ug of lead per day in supplements, so even my hefty daily dose of 15-20g still falls under the recommended daily maximum in supplements. Unless you're taking over an oz, those test results shouldn't worry you. Just stick to trustworthy vendors and you will be fine. I'd be more worried about the water we're drinking these days than the kratom we're taking.

Yeah no doubt, thanks for the response.

[Jfish030]

Those are actually really good results. There's heavy metals in everything and i mean everything. Herbal supplements should only be a small small part of your daily diet. With that said the limit is typically 1.0ppm or 1.0 on the labs. This limit is actually set by each vendor and typically everyone uses 1.0. California is technically 0.6 i believe to avoid the label that is required and you may have seen before that says this product is know to the state of california to cause cancer and birth defects. The limits for tap water for example are much higher then kratom this is due to the pipes used to transport water are made of steel/lead and it leeching into the water. Its why rich people stopped drinking tap water many years ago.

The big picture that should be looked at is how much heavy metals are you consuming from other products out there. Meats to veggies. No one really knows because most companies dont let you know much less actually test for that stuff (my hunch they dont test each batch of lettuce for example for heavy metals).


Try to stick to less then 10 grams per day if your worried as that is the amount most vendors base there 1.0 limit off of.

[Eu4oric906]

True story, so much of what I consume does not come with said lab results. I def keep it in check, under 10g per day and i take a day or two a week completely off. Appreciate you.

[Detuned]

@kelleytoons May i ask how Old you are exactly?

[Kelleytoons]

My standard answer to this is you are as old as you feel, which means this morning I'm 101 (tennis yesterday was particularly rough).

However let's just say I've been voting for over half a century (the math is pretty simple, then). Also - that's no drawing, that's actually me in the icon.

[Lokey]

@kelleytoons May i ask how Old you are exactly?

Guess not lol. Well, you can ask. I'm old too but would rather not think I am

[coldshowersuperpower]

I'm a bit of a data enthusiast, so I keep track of all reported contaminants for the batches I buy or consider buying. After doing some research on intake levels, it seems that, at common levels of consumption, the main contaminant to keep track of with kratom is lead (aside from the bio stuff, that's a separate topic). The other contaminants (well, the ones commonly reported on the CoAs) don't seem to ever be reported at significant levels (ok, with some very rare exceptions). 0.3ppm of arsenic is nothing to worry about (even if you take large amounts, other things will likely become an issue much sooner than that amount of arsenic). 0.4ppm of lead seems slightly below average levels based on the labs I reviewed so far.

Even on the topic of lead, it's not cut and dry; it's hard to say if it really matters all that much for adults unless you're pregnant or are breastfeeding (or, again, taking huge amounts). I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, but my limited inquiry seemed to indicate that mcg-level (0.4ppm is 0.4mcg per gram) variations in daily lead consumption are meaningful and can have material health implications. Based on that and my lab reading, lead seems to always be present in kratom in meaningful amounts and it's something I recommend to everyone to try to minimize. Not saying that batches with higher ppms should be avoided, but, personally, I would at least try to mix them with lower-lead batches to minimize the daily total intake. I personally never buy batches without CoAs for this reason.

There are lots of other variables, including testing procedures, etc. So it's hard to make conclusive judgments on this topic. The one thing that's clear is that, as BallzDeep9 said above, lower levels of consumption are always going to be safer.

[Eu4oric906]

Great read thank you!

[uspatriot995]

I'm a bit of a data enthusiast, so I keep track of all reported contaminants for the batches I buy or consider buying. After doing some research on intake levels, it seems that, at common levels of consumption, the main contaminant to keep track of with kratom is lead (aside from the bio stuff, that's a separate topic). The other contaminants (well, the ones commonly reported on the CoAs) don't seem to ever be reported at significant levels (ok, with some very rare exceptions). 0.3ppm of arsenic is nothing to worry about (even if you take large amounts, other things will likely become an issue much sooner than that amount of arsenic). 0.4ppm of lead seems slightly below average levels based on the labs I reviewed so far.

Even on the topic of lead, it's not cut and dry; it's hard to say if it really matters all that much for adults unless you're pregnant or are breastfeeding (or, again, taking huge amounts). I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, but my limited inquiry seemed to indicate that mcg-level (0.4ppm is 0.4mcg per gram) variations in daily lead consumption are meaningful and can have material health implications. Based on that and my lab reading, lead seems to always be present in kratom in meaningful amounts and it's something I recommend to everyone to try to minimize. Not saying that batches with higher ppms should be avoided, but, personally, I would at least try to mix them with lower-lead batches to minimize the daily total intake. I personally never buy batches without CoAs for this reason.

There are lots of other variables, including testing procedures, etc. So it's hard to make conclusive judgments on this topic. The one thing that's clear is that, as BallzDeep9 said above, lower levels of consumption are always going to be safer.

Yeah I like when I see around .300 ppm on the labs for lead. Also, someone in another thread (I think the wobbles thread) brought up the issue of Mycotoxins. I had never heard of them and then I did a wikipedia search and man, they are scary for sure. Basically bad fungii in "dietary supplements" is one of the things listed. Not sure if this could be added to the labs they do, but it seems like it could certainly be present, depending. This is also where storage methods comes in - sealed/vacuum packed, or just in a bag, etc. Also shipping from suppliers. If you have any doubts about the practices of farmers/growers/suppliers, check out Chris' thread on deep dive into kratom. It's an eye opener. Don't like to be paranoid (it kills my burn) but I seriously appreciate vendors who go through the trouble and expense of testing batches. And actually, the lead content is the first thing I look at, then the MIT and other levels. Lead over .700ppm is usually a no go for me. Of course I'm sure I ate lead paint chips off my porch of my house when I was a child I much prefer my heavy metals on my stereo.

[Jfish030]

I'm a bit of a data enthusiast, so I keep track of all reported contaminants for the batches I buy or consider buying. After doing some research on intake levels, it seems that, at common levels of consumption, the main contaminant to keep track of with kratom is lead (aside from the bio stuff, that's a separate topic). The other contaminants (well, the ones commonly reported on the CoAs) don't seem to ever be reported at significant levels (ok, with some very rare exceptions). 0.3ppm of arsenic is nothing to worry about (even if you take large amounts, other things will likely become an issue much sooner than that amount of arsenic). 0.4ppm of lead seems slightly below average levels based on the labs I reviewed so far.

Even on the topic of lead, it's not cut and dry; it's hard to say if it really matters all that much for adults unless you're pregnant or are breastfeeding (or, again, taking huge amounts). I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, but my limited inquiry seemed to indicate that mcg-level (0.4ppm is 0.4mcg per gram) variations in daily lead consumption are meaningful and can have material health implications. Based on that and my lab reading, lead seems to always be present in kratom in meaningful amounts and it's something I recommend to everyone to try to minimize. Not saying that batches with higher ppms should be avoided, but, personally, I would at least try to mix them with lower-lead batches to minimize the daily total intake. I personally never buy batches without CoAs for this reason.

There are lots of other variables, including testing procedures, etc. So it's hard to make conclusive judgments on this topic. The one thing that's clear is that, as BallzDeep9 said above, lower levels of consumption are always going to be safer.

Lead slows and breaks down neurological receptors. No amount of lead is good. The problem is there's lead in everything. So they make the limits based on the fact that leads in everything and if your diet includes a small sliver of herbal supplements it should be a small amount of lead proportional to your entire intake of daily lead. Your taking lead in everyday from everything you consume,drink, or breathe sometimes. They used to have leaded gasoline but lets not go into that lol.

[uspatriot995]

Lead slows and breaks down neurological receptors. No amount of lead is good. The problem is there's lead in everything. So they make the limits based on the fact that leads in everything and if your diet includes a small sliver of herbal supplements it should be a small amount of lead proportional to your entire intake of daily lead. Your taking lead in everyday from everything you consume,drink, or breathe sometimes. They used to have leaded gasoline but lets not go into that lol.

Right. Lead is NFG at all. Would you comment on Mycotoxins as they relate to kratom, daily intake, your thoughts/experience?

Thanks.

[Jfish030]

Lead slows and breaks down neurological receptors. No amount of lead is good. The problem is there's lead in everything. So they make the limits based on the fact that leads in everything and if your diet includes a small sliver of herbal supplements it should be a small amount of lead proportional to your entire intake of daily lead. Your taking lead in everyday from everything you consume,drink, or breathe sometimes. They used to have leaded gasoline but lets not go into that lol.

Right. Lead is NFG at all. Would you comment on Mycotoxins as they relate to kratom, daily intake, your thoughts/experience?

Thanks.

Stay away from the super moist looking stuff. The people that rave over mega clumps and super fresh powder are just looking at kratom that normally wasn't dried long enough. Sun dried kratom used to be how all kratom was produced. It was done because drying other herbs that way allowed it to dry fully and the uv light from the sun killed off bacteria and mold. There is nothing wrong with indoor dried kratom its just there is more risk the producer can mess it up unknowingly.

Most kratom from reliable suppliers is treated in some form, heat treated or irradation. Both have their own pros and cons but they both disinfect the powder so to speak. If stored in the USA in a climate controlled warehouse/building and the humidity is watched your looking a no issues. The people storing kratom in sheds/garages/storage units, your getting a whole lot of humidity that can get the molds/fungi growing/growing again.

We haven't heard much for mycotoxins with kratom powder, but if produced and stored improperly anything could happen i suppose. Over the years talking to the lab companies we have used. You just heard alot about ecoli,salmonella and lead from the lab workers related to kratom. Many lab companies have grown a sizeable share of business solely from kratom testing. What was once on the hush hush we will test your kratom has now come to the point where many big name lab companies publish their kratom testing services on their websites. They all offer packages for kratom testing and mycotoxins are not in them, even on the safety+ options. I would say little to no concern from the general kratom industry after this many years.

[uspatriot995]

Lead slows and breaks down neurological receptors. No amount of lead is good. The problem is there's lead in everything. So they make the limits based on the fact that leads in everything and if your diet includes a small sliver of herbal supplements it should be a small amount of lead proportional to your entire intake of daily lead. Your taking lead in everyday from everything you consume,drink, or breathe sometimes. They used to have leaded gasoline but lets not go into that lol.

Right. Lead is NFG at all. Would you comment on Mycotoxins as they relate to kratom, daily intake, your thoughts/experience?

Thanks.

Stay away from the super moist looking stuff. The people that rave over mega clumps and super fresh powder are just looking at kratom that normally wasn't dried long enough. Sun dried kratom used to be how all kratom was produced. It was done because drying other herbs that way allowed it to dry fully and the uv light from the sun killed off bacteria and mold. There is nothing wrong with indoor dried kratom its just there is more risk the producer can mess it up unknowingly.

Most kratom from reliable suppliers is treated in some form, heat treated or irradation. Both have their own pros and cons but they both disinfect the powder so to speak. If stored in the USA in a climate controlled warehouse/building and the humidity is watched your looking a no issues. The people storing kratom in sheds/garages/storage units, your getting a whole lot of humidity that can get the molds/fungi growing/growing again.

We haven't heard much for mycotoxins with kratom powder, but if produced and stored improperly anything could happen i suppose. Over the years talking to the lab companies we have used. You just heard alot about ecoli,salmonella and lead from the lab workers related to kratom. Many lab companies have grown a sizeable share of business solely from kratom testing. What was once on the hush hush we will test your kratom has now come to the point where many big name lab companies publish their kratom testing services on their websites. They all offer packages for kratom testing and mycotoxins are not in them, even on the safety+ options. I would say little to no concern from the general kratom industry after this many years.

Thanks, good information!

[kittykatkratom]

I'm a bit of a data enthusiast, so I keep track of all reported contaminants for the batches I buy or consider buying. After doing some research on intake levels, it seems that, at common levels of consumption, the main contaminant to keep track of with kratom is lead (aside from the bio stuff, that's a separate topic). The other contaminants (well, the ones commonly reported on the CoAs) don't seem to ever be reported at significant levels (ok, with some very rare exceptions). 0.3ppm of arsenic is nothing to worry about (even if you take large amounts, other things will likely become an issue much sooner than that amount of arsenic). 0.4ppm of lead seems slightly below average levels based on the labs I reviewed so far.

Even on the topic of lead, it's not cut and dry; it's hard to say if it really matters all that much for adults unless you're pregnant or are breastfeeding (or, again, taking huge amounts). I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, but my limited inquiry seemed to indicate that mcg-level (0.4ppm is 0.4mcg per gram) variations in daily lead consumption are meaningful and can have material health implications. Based on that and my lab reading, lead seems to always be present in kratom in meaningful amounts and it's something I recommend to everyone to try to minimize. Not saying that batches with higher ppms should be avoided, but, personally, I would at least try to mix them with lower-lead batches to minimize the daily total intake. I personally never buy batches without CoAs for this reason.

There are lots of other variables, including testing procedures, etc. So it's hard to make conclusive judgments on this topic. The one thing that's clear is that, as BallzDeep9 said above, lower levels of consumption are always going to be safer.

Yeah I like when I see around .300 ppm on the labs for lead. Also, someone in another thread (I think the wobbles thread) brought up the issue of Mycotoxins. I had never heard of them and then I did a wikipedia search and man, they are scary for sure. Basically bad fungii in "dietary supplements" is one of the things listed. Not sure if this could be added to the labs they do, but it seems like it could certainly be present, depending. This is also where storage methods comes in - sealed/vacuum packed, or just in a bag, etc. Also shipping from suppliers. If you have any doubts about the practices of farmers/growers/suppliers, check out Chris' thread on deep dive into kratom. It's an eye opener. Don't like to be paranoid (it kills my burn) but I seriously appreciate vendors who go through the trouble and expense of testing batches. And actually, the lead content is the first thing I look at, then the MIT and other levels. Lead over .700ppm is usually a no go for me. Of course I'm sure I ate lead paint chips off my porch of my house when I was a child I much prefer my heavy metals on my stereo.

You mention .700ppm+ being a no go for you and only wanting to buy from vendors who certified lab tests. I'm am right there with ya! So I'm wondering what vendors do you buy from that have heavy metal labs available?

[coldshowersuperpower]

I'm a bit of a data enthusiast, so I keep track of all reported contaminants for the batches I buy or consider buying. After doing some research on intake levels, it seems that, at common levels of consumption, the main contaminant to keep track of with kratom is lead (aside from the bio stuff, that's a separate topic). The other contaminants (well, the ones commonly reported on the CoAs) don't seem to ever be reported at significant levels (ok, with some very rare exceptions). 0.3ppm of arsenic is nothing to worry about (even if you take large amounts, other things will likely become an issue much sooner than that amount of arsenic). 0.4ppm of lead seems slightly below average levels based on the labs I reviewed so far.

Even on the topic of lead, it's not cut and dry; it's hard to say if it really matters all that much for adults unless you're pregnant or are breastfeeding (or, again, taking huge amounts). I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, but my limited inquiry seemed to indicate that mcg-level (0.4ppm is 0.4mcg per gram) variations in daily lead consumption are meaningful and can have material health implications. Based on that and my lab reading, lead seems to always be present in kratom in meaningful amounts and it's something I recommend to everyone to try to minimize. Not saying that batches with higher ppms should be avoided, but, personally, I would at least try to mix them with lower-lead batches to minimize the daily total intake. I personally never buy batches without CoAs for this reason.

There are lots of other variables, including testing procedures, etc. So it's hard to make conclusive judgments on this topic. The one thing that's clear is that, as BallzDeep9 said above, lower levels of consumption are always going to be safer.

Yeah I like when I see around .300 ppm on the labs for lead. Also, someone in another thread (I think the wobbles thread) brought up the issue of Mycotoxins. I had never heard of them and then I did a wikipedia search and man, they are scary for sure. Basically bad fungii in "dietary supplements" is one of the things listed. Not sure if this could be added to the labs they do, but it seems like it could certainly be present, depending. This is also where storage methods comes in - sealed/vacuum packed, or just in a bag, etc. Also shipping from suppliers. If you have any doubts about the practices of farmers/growers/suppliers, check out Chris' thread on deep dive into kratom. It's an eye opener. Don't like to be paranoid (it kills my burn) but I seriously appreciate vendors who go through the trouble and expense of testing batches. And actually, the lead content is the first thing I look at, then the MIT and other levels. Lead over .700ppm is usually a no go for me. Of course I'm sure I ate lead paint chips off my porch of my house when I was a child I much prefer my heavy metals on my stereo.

You mention .700ppm+ being a no go for you and only wanting to buy from vendors who certified lab tests. I'm am right there with ya! So I'm wondering what vendors do you buy from that have heavy metal labs available?

Lots. Herbal RVA, Oties, Lucky, Christopher's all have posted CoAs and excellent products.
In most cases, there would be a CoA per product/batch, but it depends on the vendor. Lucky's tests are for combinations of their 3 base strains per batch.
There are also some vendors that have CoAs posted, but I personally just can't figure out how to read them.

With any vendor, it's important to keep in mind that the presence of a CoA is not an automatic safety qualifier; it's important to actually scan and interpret the details and decide whether it's an acceptable product based on your rate of consumption and the level of risk you're ok with. Personally, I agree with .7ppm for lead as the absolute ceiling (and I try to stay below 0.5) but those numbers can be different for someone who doesn't take kratom every day.

[uspatriot995]

I'm a bit of a data enthusiast, so I keep track of all reported contaminants for the batches I buy or consider buying. After doing some research on intake levels, it seems that, at common levels of consumption, the main contaminant to keep track of with kratom is lead (aside from the bio stuff, that's a separate topic). The other contaminants (well, the ones commonly reported on the CoAs) don't seem to ever be reported at significant levels (ok, with some very rare exceptions). 0.3ppm of arsenic is nothing to worry about (even if you take large amounts, other things will likely become an issue much sooner than that amount of arsenic). 0.4ppm of lead seems slightly below average levels based on the labs I reviewed so far.

Even on the topic of lead, it's not cut and dry; it's hard to say if it really matters all that much for adults unless you're pregnant or are breastfeeding (or, again, taking huge amounts). I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, but my limited inquiry seemed to indicate that mcg-level (0.4ppm is 0.4mcg per gram) variations in daily lead consumption are meaningful and can have material health implications. Based on that and my lab reading, lead seems to always be present in kratom in meaningful amounts and it's something I recommend to everyone to try to minimize. Not saying that batches with higher ppms should be avoided, but, personally, I would at least try to mix them with lower-lead batches to minimize the daily total intake. I personally never buy batches without CoAs for this reason.

There are lots of other variables, including testing procedures, etc. So it's hard to make conclusive judgments on this topic. The one thing that's clear is that, as BallzDeep9 said above, lower levels of consumption are always going to be safer.

Yeah I like when I see around .300 ppm on the labs for lead. Also, someone in another thread (I think the wobbles thread) brought up the issue of Mycotoxins. I had never heard of them and then I did a wikipedia search and man, they are scary for sure. Basically bad fungii in "dietary supplements" is one of the things listed. Not sure if this could be added to the labs they do, but it seems like it could certainly be present, depending. This is also where storage methods comes in - sealed/vacuum packed, or just in a bag, etc. Also shipping from suppliers. If you have any doubts about the practices of farmers/growers/suppliers, check out Chris' thread on deep dive into kratom. It's an eye opener. Don't like to be paranoid (it kills my burn) but I seriously appreciate vendors who go through the trouble and expense of testing batches. And actually, the lead content is the first thing I look at, then the MIT and other levels. Lead over .700ppm is usually a no go for me. Of course I'm sure I ate lead paint chips off my porch of my house when I was a child I much prefer my heavy metals on my stereo.

You mention .700ppm+ being a no go for you and only wanting to buy from vendors who certified lab tests. I'm am right there with ya! So I'm wondering what vendors do you buy from that have heavy metal labs available?

You will have to look around, watch here for vendors and see if they have websites, etc. Usually they will have a section with lab reports, or it's a picture that is included with the strain or batch. Not all do this. Smallbatch is like that. Some non-membership sites post labs, just an example would be Fused Flora, and Herbal RVA, Okies/Oties also I believe.

Lucky Herbals is member-only but I think they are having an open even soon. They post labs, as do many others, you just have to look around and do your research.

The .300 ppm lead is just an arbitrary number for me. I like to see it at or below that, but I have burned leaf with higher lead than that!

From what I gather, much of the food we eat and the water we drink has some heavy metals in them.

I just prefer my heavy metal to come from my stereo not my food/water/leaf. Heh.

[kwest13]

Yeah I like when I see around .300 ppm on the labs for lead. Also, someone in another thread (I think the wobbles thread) brought up the issue of Mycotoxins. I had never heard of them and then I did a wikipedia search and man, they are scary for sure. Basically bad fungii in "dietary supplements" is one of the things listed. Not sure if this could be added to the labs they do, but it seems like it could certainly be present, depending. This is also where storage methods comes in - sealed/vacuum packed, or just in a bag, etc. Also shipping from suppliers. If you have any doubts about the practices of farmers/growers/suppliers, check out Chris' thread on deep dive into kratom. It's an eye opener. Don't like to be paranoid (it kills my burn) but I seriously appreciate vendors who go through the trouble and expense of testing batches. And actually, the lead content is the first thing I look at, then the MIT and other levels. Lead over .700ppm is usually a no go for me. Of course I'm sure I ate lead paint chips off my porch of my house when I was a child I much prefer my heavy metals on my stereo.

You mention .700ppm+ being a no go for you and only wanting to buy from vendors who certified lab tests. I'm am right there with ya! So I'm wondering what vendors do you buy from that have heavy metal labs available?

You will have to look around, watch here for vendors and see if they have websites, etc. Usually they will have a section with lab reports, or it's a picture that is included with the strain or batch. Not all do this. Smallbatch is like that. Some non-membership sites post labs, just an example would be Fused Flora, and Herbal RVA, Okies/Oties also I believe.

Lucky Herbals is member-only but I think they are having an open even soon. They post labs, as do many others, you just have to look around and do your research.

The .300 ppm lead is just an arbitrary number for me. I like to see it at or below that, but I have burned leaf with higher lead than that!

From what I gather, much of the food we eat and the water we drink has some heavy metals in them.

I just prefer my heavy metal to come from my stereo not my food/water/leaf. Heh.

Lucky herbals is no longer member only. Starting today.

[Jfish030]

Tap water has alot of lead in it. The pipes that transfer the water to your faucet, alot of them are metal pipes. They leech into the water.
PVC is the another type used. Those well we dont know what leeches into water, we may find out in the future.

Rich people drink out of glass bottles for what its worth lol.

[Daydreamsofmountains]

Tap water has alot of lead in it. The pipes that transfer the water to your faucet, alot of them are metal pipes. They leech into the water.
PVC is the another type used. Those well we dont know what leeches into water, we may find out in the future.

Rich people drink out of glass bottles for what its worth lol.

This! I live in Denver and they are in the middle of a huge campaign to get residents to stop drinking the tap water because it has lead in it. We get free water filters (for pitchers they provided) every few months and papa lets promoting it - most recent was highlighting the need to use filtered Walter even for cooking.

So many people consume toxic crap all day without knowing it.

[WhiteAngelica]

Speaking of toxic crap we eat, I am especially interested in toxic crap inside our homes, restaurants and bars (thanks, Bar Rescue)

Anyone have any suggestions on the mold readings in these labs?

I want to go for the less is more approach and save myself from lead poisoning, but I don't know what to do about this pain. I take a little kratom all the time but admittedly dose all day. Would I be better off on Opiods? Not that this is an option in my state. But I wake up in the morning and yell a lot that I want my lower body cut off because it constantly feels like it is going through a wood chipper.

To end it more positively, kratom helps mediate this insanity but perhaps at a cost to my mental acuity, which is a concern. My former and potentially future line of work just means staying smart. Not sure if that's an option anymore, but back to mold:

Anyone knowledgeable about lab reports and mold?

[Transformato]

Just curious how hard core people are over lab results. I was looking over a 3rd party lab report for a popular vendors latest batch and saw like 0.3 ppm arsenic and like 0.4 ppm for lead. Obviously they proudly publish said results but not sure how concerned i should be when i see hits for contaminants. Figured this would be a good place to ask.

Don't drink your tap water (I avoid it due to it being an industrial waste dumping ground- more than anything else). I'd say don't eat for that matter either. The world is dirty. Everybody is dirty and host to countless viruses, bacterial communities that manage to maintain balance- each person is an ecosystem to themselves. Being too clean all the time can actually can increase vulnerabilities.
People that adamantly want these labs- many if not most are satisfied with a false or superficial sense of security so they don't care that they don't understand what they are looking at.

You're free to look things up. It's more reliable than asking a crowd on a forum. Can start by looking up EPA standards and maybe FDA or agriculture authorities to view charts and get related info.
Might want to tap multiple sources & perspectives.

Nobody is posting non passing lab results. Toxins and bacteria are always here. Kill them all and we go with them.

[Bestboy143]

Just curious how hard core people are over lab results. I was looking over a 3rd party lab report for a popular vendors latest batch and saw like 0.3 ppm arsenic and like 0.4 ppm for lead. Obviously they proudly publish said results but not sure how concerned i should be when i see hits for contaminants. Figured this would be a good place to ask.

It's been a long time so I can't give you the numbers. I remember looking into this when the FDA and media was pushing heavy metals as another added danger for kratom. At first I was worried. After looking it up, the number they put up were laughable. I remember seeing green teas with higher levels. Basically just like everything else. I don't think kratom drying out on the sidewalks of a third world country is helping the numbers either. Plus the milling factories in Indonesia probably loading it with extra contaminants too. Would be cool to get some American production going. I'm surprised no one has started farms here.

[Lokey]

They have started farms here. Two I know of are Miami Botany and The Trees of Life.

[Roofdog]

Just curious how hard core people are over lab results. I was looking over a 3rd party lab report for a popular vendors latest batch and saw like 0.3 ppm arsenic and like 0.4 ppm for lead. Obviously they proudly publish said results but not sure how concerned i should be when i see hits for contaminants. Figured this would be a good place to ask.

It's been a long time so I can't give you the numbers. I remember looking into this when the FDA and media was pushing heavy metals as another added danger for kratom. At first I was worried. After looking it up, the number they put up were laughable. I remember seeing green teas with higher levels. Basically just like everything else. I don't think kratom drying out on the sidewalks of a third world country is helping the numbers either. Plus the milling factories in Indonesia probably loading it with extra contaminants too. Would be cool to get some American production going. I'm surprised no one has started farms here.

I dont want to think about what the numbers would be if they tested our food. Ect. That maybe scary as well.

[gumbyke1]

Just curious how hard core people are over lab results. I was looking over a 3rd party lab report for a popular vendors latest batch and saw like 0.3 ppm arsenic and like 0.4 ppm for lead. Obviously they proudly publish said results but not sure how concerned i should be when i see hits for contaminants. Figured this would be a good place to ask.

It's been a long time so I can't give you the numbers. I remember looking into this when the FDA and media was pushing heavy metals as another added danger for kratom. At first I was worried. After looking it up, the number they put up were laughable. I remember seeing green teas with higher levels. Basically just like everything else. I don't think kratom drying out on the sidewalks of a third world country is helping the numbers either. Plus the milling factories in Indonesia probably loading it with extra contaminants too. Would be cool to get some American production going. I'm surprised no one has started farms here.

I dont want to think about what the numbers would be if they tested our food. Ect. That maybe scary as well.

Let me just drop this link right here.

https://www.consumerreports.org/food-sa ... -and-lead/