KRATOM is Addictive or?

[Indo_gmp]

Some people say that Kratom is addictive, meanwhile, when it comes to natural healing practice, Kratom is the thing used the most among Borneo villagers. It is often consumed when someone has got fever, fatigue, or an urge for taking some energy boosters before running their daily productivity. On the other hand, does it sound like Kratom being addictive to someone taking it?

Firstly, it is believed for hundreds of year, Borneo villagers use kratom for natural medications. One of those is to knock down the fever. It can be done just by drinking the kratom tea or simply chew the kratom leave. Then the fever would drop quickly.

Secondly , not only fever, it is also used to fight fatigue, a condition when you feel extremely weary. Taking kratom for this reason often mistaken as an addiction and of course, dangerous. However, there is a local research resulting that, by the clinical testing through the mix of water, kratom, honey ,and lime water, there wasn’t any respondents feeling the hallucinations.

Thirdly, kratom as an energy booster. Borneo villagers often take kratom before starting to work on hard days. It helps them work absolutely amazing on the field. Additionally, I do believe that as i have experienced it myself. Taking just a quarter teaspoon of kratom in powder form with just water helps me do my routine better. But when i don’t feel like i need it then i just skip consuming and that’s still fine too. It wouldn’t be like that if true that kratom is an addictive agent, right?

In conclusion, there is no evidence that Kratom gives addiction to the users. This is because it has no addictive agent inside of it. Truth be told, We ve been doing Kratom things for 13 years, and even our circles of friends consume Kratom powder daily, and we don't even feel addicted. I took this thread from www.indogmp.com blog, and thanks to it, my writing was also published there..


https://www.indogmp.com/kratom-is-addic ... dangerous/

[Tcoppedge]

Tbh anything can be addictive especially if it makes you feel better when you take it, whether it eases pain or helps with anxiety or whatever. I was a heroin addict for 8 years and kratom 100% saved my life but I believe I am addicted to it, not chemically wise(which I agree with you is not addictive) but mentally. That is probably because I myself am an addict and for whatever reason feel like need something to take everyday. There are so many things that are addictive that you can buy legally in everyday life that have terrible effects on your health, obvious ones like alcohol, caffeine, sugar and salt, or cigarettes but also things like nose spray. The bigger question is should it even matter when all those other things that are much worse for you are shoved in your face everyday. Kratom is a natural plant with so many proven benefits, least of all, literally saving peoples lives, getting people off pharmaceuticals and so many other drugs just by eating a leaf. Why can’t we as informed adults be able to decide what we put into our bodies whether it’s “addictive” or not.
I don’t know where I’m going with this or what I’m adding to this post lol but short answer is while I mostly agree it’s not addictive I don’t even think it matters. Like most things it’s about moderation and for myself unfortunately I have none haha

[Renob]

I think it’s definitely addictive but I’d say that sugar is addictive too. It’s different for everyone, obviously, but it’s probably a combination of psychologically and physically addictive but seems less severe on the physical dependence scale. I’d say that kratom is really similar to Marijuana in a lot of ways. There are still debates on whether or not weed is addictive. I think it is but there are tons of people who will tell you that it isn’t.

I’d rather be addicted to kratom compared to anti depressants, opiates, benzos, alcohol, street drugs or anything else that kratom can and has replaced for many people. I used to be a really heavy social drinker and I had periods in my 20’s and early 30’s where I was drinking 5-6 nights a week and getting positively plastered! I reduced that greatly over the years and even more so after I had kids. Now that I use kratom every day, I drink about 4-5 times PER YEAR and I’m much happier this way.

I also was prescribed anti depressants (they’re over prescribed in general, in my opinion) and benzos for years. These worked great for about 6 months and then they made me feel like hell. The tapering and quitting was a horrible experience, too. I’ve been off of that crap for about 8-9 years now but the entire ordeal was really shitty. What I’m saying is that out of the options, Kratom seems to have the least side effects and isn’t as dangerous as these other substances. If I’m gonna be addicted to something, it may as well be kratom.

[Kelleytoons]

There are clearly two very different forms of "addiction" - one is psychological, the other is physical. Things can be either, neither or both.

Kratom appears to be non-physically addicting. There are *some* reports of suffering some physiological problems when you stop (jitters, restless legs, even upset stomach) but for the vast majority of us who take it regularly we can take four or five days, or even weeks off without having any symptoms. If it were addictive in this respect that would not be possible.

There's also another component that isn't necessary to the addiction process but does keep kratom from becoming a problem - less really is more. So unlike a lot of other substances chasing after the feeling by taking more and more isn't a problem (indeed, most folks find just cutting back improves things greatly).

However, I do think it's funny the OP started off by saying, in essence, that kratom wasn't addictive because folks took it every single day for years without problems. That's kind of an oxymoron. Those folks are pretty obviously psychologically addicted to it (I was addicted to Dr. Pepper - drank many quarts each day for decades. Stopped cold turkey one day to lose weight and never had another for the last 20 or so years. No other problems occurred :>).

[Renob]

I’m in need of a break right around now, actually. Two days without should do the trick but it’s terribly difficult and takes a lot of willpower. I rely on kratom for so many different purposes so even taking 2 days off is very hard. I get really bad anxiety, headaches and I have trouble sleeping whenever I try to take what everyone refers to as a “t-break”. The reality is anything that gives you pleasure, comfort, etc is addictive after a certain amount of time. The neural pathways in my brain are set to take my kratom 2-3 times per day so any deviation brings a bit of discomfort.

[Renob]

There are clearly two very different forms of "addiction" - one is psychological, the other is physical. Things can be either, neither or both.

Kratom appears to be non-physically addicting. There are *some* reports of suffering some physiological problems when you stop (jitters, restless legs, even upset stomach) but for the vast majority of us who take it regularly we can take four or five days, or even weeks off without having any symptoms. If it were addictive in this respect that would not be possible.

There's also another component that isn't necessary to the addiction process but does keep kratom from becoming a problem - less really is more. So unlike a lot of other substances chasing after the feeling by taking more and more isn't a problem (indeed, most folks find just cutting back improves things greatly).

However, I do think it's funny the OP started off by saying, in essence, that kratom wasn't addictive because folks took it every single day for years without problems. That's kind of an oxymoron. Those folks are pretty obviously psychologically addicted to it (I was addicted to Dr. Pepper - drank many quarts each day for decades. Stopped cold turkey one day to lose weight and never had another for the last 20 or so years. No other problems occurred :>).

I’ve noticed you commenting about “less is more” in quite a few posts. When I try to drastically reduce my dose I usually find myself just being frustrated from lack of effects and relief so I go back to my regular dose within the same day, most of the time. .

Do you find yourself going up and down with your doses? How often do you start to decrease? I personally have been upping it little bits every couple of weeks then it becomes stale and doesn’t work as well so I decrease gradually. The first bit of time while I’m lowering my doses really sucks and I don’t get the same benefits but it usually evens itself out after about a week or so. The problem then is that I start gradually increasing again every time.

[Kelleytoons]

I can only speak from personal experience (obviously but worth noting) but my doses had gotten up to around 6-8 grams and the effects just weren't there, even after a break and even lowering down to 4 grams.

Then a member told me I really needed to reduce so I figured, what did I have to lose? I tried just a couple of grams... bingo! That was the magic again.

Tapering didn't work (for me) - only dramatically going lower worked. And I truly believe (but, again, for ME) that anything over three grams is wasted. Not only that - but it actually REDUCES the effects.

I do seem to find that reds, in general (as much as you can generalize anything) work better at a stronger dose. So - three grams. But even then I try and keep it down UNDER three grams (because I take capsules it's a bit hit or miss depending on how they are packed and the particular powder - some do weigh more than others. But 4 to 5 capsules is my "sweet spot" and that's usually from 2 to 2.8 grams. With the reds I try to always use five capsules).

I take kratom often - two or three times a day - but never go higher in dose, as it's counterproductive. When I find that even the two grams doesn't seem to be working well I take a break (if I'm not playing tennis I *can* go without - doesn't mean I'm happy about it, because my knee hurts like hell. I'm hoping after the replacement I will find this to be no issue at all. But then I'll play more tennis so I'm kinda chasing my tail here, so to speak).

All I would say to anyone is - if it's not working for you (the particular dose you're using) and you don't want to take a break, then cut your dose. In half. At least.

[Madvillain626]

I’m in need of a break right around now, actually. Two days without should do the trick but it’s terribly difficult and takes a lot of willpower. I rely on kratom for so many different purposes so even taking 2 days off is very hard. I get really bad anxiety, headaches and I have trouble sleeping whenever I try to take what everyone refers to as a “t-break”. The reality is anything that gives you pleasure, comfort, etc is addictive after a certain amount of time. The neural pathways in my brain are set to take my kratom 2-3 times per day so any deviation brings a bit of discomfort.

this is where I'm at. just got in some quality kratom and i'm broke rn so that gives me an incentive to take a t-break so I don't feel i'm "wasting" good leaf. cutting my dose would help too, but I often lack the willpower for that

[Renob]

I’m in need of a break right around now, actually. Two days without should do the trick but it’s terribly difficult and takes a lot of willpower. I rely on kratom for so many different purposes so even taking 2 days off is very hard. I get really bad anxiety, headaches and I have trouble sleeping whenever I try to take what everyone refers to as a “t-break”. The reality is anything that gives you pleasure, comfort, etc is addictive after a certain amount of time. The neural pathways in my brain are set to take my kratom 2-3 times per day so any deviation brings a bit of discomfort.

this is where I'm at. just got in some quality kratom and i'm broke rn so that gives me an incentive to take a t-break so I don't feel i'm "wasting" good leaf. cutting my dose would help too, but I often lack the willpower for that

You sound exactly like me. Hahahaha

[dragonchaser]

To me it's definitely addictive, but what does that really mean anyways? People get addicted to food, caffeine, sex, video games, exercise, the list goes on. The real question should be is, is being addicted to it harmful, and what are your reasons for taking it, is it worth it to you? I've learned that basically everyone has a vice, the people who look down on others for taking psychoactive substances probably have there on issues going on, severe sugar addiction, fast food, sex or porn etc. It's human nature. The only reason its addictive to me is that taking low doses, I can take it basically every day and still feel great and it causes no noticable effects to my health. Otherwise I wouldn't keep taking it. So am I addicted or am I just smart for continuing to take someting that has only helped my life since I started? Id probably say there's some psychological addiction going on but that's just my personality, if I completely stopped for good I'd find something else to replace it, like big pharma medications that don't work as well and are more harmful. So yes it's definitely addictive for some people, but I don't think we're able to make a blanket statement for if its addictive as a whole. Context is important

[Lokey]

I remember whenever this discussion came up in the past there are a few who point out there's a difference between addiction and dependence. I think they emphasized that addiction is more physical, dependence more psychological, and in their opinion most people depend on kratom more than are addicted to it.

[Fhietra899]

I remember whenever this discussion came up in the past there are a few who point out there's a difference between addiction and dependence. I think they emphasized that addiction is more physical, dependence more psychological, and in their opinion most people depend on kratom more than are addicted to it.

I remember bout that, and if i'm not wrong, i was told kratom its has make me Dependence on it bcause of kratom effects like euphoric, good mood, and energetic makes my Endorphins triggered and loves it so much...
If i'm not using kratom my world just like "Flat" That's why i feel "dependence" with kratom.

[brave777]

To be honest it should be made mandatory to 8 bill people on earth everyday until they die. Min 2 gram every morning to every being... You can only imagine, soo much less problem... Its natural and healthy for you. i think after 50 years or so , the legends will leak the awesome benefits KRATOM has...

[PistolsAtDawn]

There are far, far worse things to be addicted to than kratom. I seriously don't worry about using it 3x a day because of how beneficial it is to me. Life is much better for me with kratom in my system. I'd probably be dead without it

[Indo_gmp]

Tbh anything can be addictive especially if it makes you feel better when you take it, whether it eases pain or helps with anxiety or whatever. I was a heroin addict for 8 years and kratom 100% saved my life but I believe I am addicted to it, not chemically wise(which I agree with you is not addictive) but mentally. That is probably because I myself am an addict and for whatever reason feel like need something to take everyday. There are so many things that are addictive that you can buy legally in everyday life that have terrible effects on your health, obvious ones like alcohol, caffeine, sugar and salt, or cigarettes but also things like nose spray. The bigger question is should it even matter when all those other things that are much worse for you are shoved in your face everyday. Kratom is a natural plant with so many proven benefits, least of all, literally saving peoples lives, getting people off pharmaceuticals and so many other drugs just by eating a leaf. Why can’t we as informed adults be able to decide what we put into our bodies whether it’s “addictive” or not.
I don’t know where I’m going with this or what I’m adding to this post lol but short answer is while I mostly agree it’s not addictive I don’t even think it matters. Like most things it’s about moderation and for myself unfortunately I have none haha

Sometimes I wonder "Am I addictive to this kind of stuff?", yet when I try to stop consuming it, It does not have any bad impact or addictive symptoms. Well, actually I am not the only one who drinks kratom often, since I am in the circle of friends who use kratom for their daily routines, I don't see any symptoms of addiction from their behavior. but "if only" in fact, I am addicted to it, it doesn't matter, cuz I know Kratom for me brings more good than harm.. anyway , happy for you that Kratom helps you with heroin addiction.

[Indo_gmp]

There are far, far worse things to be addicted to than kratom. I seriously don't worry about using it 3x a day because of how beneficial it is to me. Life is much better for me with kratom in my system. I'd probably be dead without it

Sure, I dunno how it feels when we get addicted to something dangerous or bad. what I know is drinking Kratom in a day and night does help me to keep my focus. I don't get any bad symptom from Kratom addiction.

[Indo_gmp]

I remember whenever this discussion came up in the past there are a few who point out there's a difference between addiction and dependence. I think they emphasized that addiction is more physical, dependence more psychological, and in their opinion most people depend on kratom more than are addicted to it.

wow, I think between addiction and dependence, It has specific different, yet I dunno whether I am addicted or depended on it. If, in fact, I am the addicted user, It means that plenty of my friends are addicted too, because We always try our products before we let our consumers take it to consume.

[Indo_gmp]

I can only speak from personal experience (obviously but worth noting) but my doses had gotten up to around 6-8 grams and the effects just weren't there, even after a break and even lowering down to 4 grams.

Then a member told me I really needed to reduce so I figured, what did I have to lose? I tried just a couple of grams... bingo! That was the magic again.

Tapering didn't work (for me) - only dramatically going lower worked. And I truly believe (but, again, for ME) that anything over three grams is wasted. Not only that - but it actually REDUCES the effects.

I do seem to find that reds, in general (as much as you can generalize anything) work better at a stronger dose. So - three grams. But even then I try and keep it down UNDER three grams (because I take capsules it's a bit hit or miss depending on how they are packed and the particular powder - some do weigh more than others. But 4 to 5 capsules is my "sweet spot" and that's usually from 2 to 2.8 grams. With the reds I try to always use five capsules).

I take kratom often - two or three times a day - but never go higher in dose, as it's counterproductive. When I find that even the two grams doesn't seem to be working well I take a break (if I'm not playing tennis I *can* go without - doesn't mean I'm happy about it, because my knee hurts like hell. I'm hoping after the replacement I will find this to be no issue at all. But then I'll play more tennis so I'm kinda chasing my tail here, so to speak).

All I would say to anyone is - if it's not working for you (the particular dose you're using) and you don't want to take a break, then cut your dose. In half. At least.

I never take more dose too, but well , sometimes in a day, I have more things to do and it need more focus, I will drink it more that 3 times a day (with the same dose)

[pray4peace4]

I'm going to break with the flow & say it exactly as I see it. Kratom is physically addictive in some people & not in others. It appears to be dose & length of use dependent. There's many studies proving it's addictive potential, there's many addiction centers that have treated physically addicted users, and back when we all, or most, were on Reddit, the topic came up constantly on the kratom forums, but especially the sub for those addicted(I don't remember that sub's name - it's been too long). The main Reddit Kratom sub immediately banned anyone who said or implied it was addictive. That's an unfortunate new bad habit of modern western culture - don't let anyone share any views nor evidence that contradicts the in-crowd's view. That's not how truth is found & it's not how science works.

Get on Google Scholar & search for kratom addiction. It's real folks. If it hasn't affected you, great. Get on your knees & thank heaven for your blessings. If you ever find you are addicted & want to get out of it, talk to your doctor & see if he/she will treat you with clonidine under the doctor's supervision. Don't let any treatment center put you on methadone, suboxone, or other opioid analogs because they're 100 times worse. Clonidine is a strong drug that effectively treats anxiety, high blood pressure, substance addiction, panic disorder, & more by greatly reducing the activity of your brain's sympathetic nervous system. It's highly effective in stopping severe sweating, & because of that is often prescribed to women going through menopause.

[Kelleytoons]

Color me extremely skeptical about this claim. Unless we have scientific evidence (and we don't) I still say it's not addictive. The SCIENCE says it doesn't hit the opioid sensors that ARE addictive. Therefore if someone claims they are addicted my first reaction would be 1. They took it adulterated. or 2. BS (and possibly pushed by Big Pharma).

But - believe what you want. Again, there just isn't any science behind believing it is, but that never stops people from believing a whole lot of crap (like gas stoves are bad. Sigh).

[Csharpe]

I'm going to break with the flow & say it exactly as I see it. Kratom is physically addictive in some people & not in others. It appears to be dose & length of use dependent. There's many studies proving it's addictive potential, there's many addiction centers that have treated physically addicted users, and back when we all, or most, were on Reddit, the topic came up constantly on the kratom forums, but especially the sub for those addicted(I don't remember that sub's name - it's been too long). The main Reddit Kratom sub immediately banned anyone who said or implied it was addictive. That's an unfortunate new bad habit of modern western culture - don't let anyone share any views nor evidence that contradicts the in-crowd's view. That's not how truth is found & it's not how science works.

Get on Google Scholar & search for kratom addiction. It's real folks. If it hasn't affected you, great. Get on your knees & thank heaven for your blessings. If you ever find you are addicted & want to get out of it, talk to your doctor & see if he/she will treat you with clonidine under the doctor's supervision. Don't let any treatment center put you on methadone, suboxone, or other opioid analogs because they're 100 times worse. Clonidine is a strong drug that effectively treats anxiety, high blood pressure, substance addiction, panic disorder, & more by greatly reducing the activity of your brain's sympathetic nervous system. It's highly effective in stopping severe sweating, & because of that is often prescribed to women going through menopause.

I’m assuming that sub you’re talking about is the quitting kratom one. It is unbelievable the amount a lot of those people use. I’ve looked through it many times just for the shock factor and majority were abusing opms shots or taking 50+ gpd. I’ve actually seen multiple people claiming they were taking 5/6 opms black shots a day not even sure how that’s possible.

[BallzDeep9]

Unless we have scientific evidence (and we don't) I still say it's not addictive. The SCIENCE says it doesn't hit the opioid sensors that ARE addictive.

Yes I'm aware of some science on that, However, not sure about their definition: "addiction" ? I took a short break last week, and it was 3 days from HELL and I was like 5 gpd.

Daily user 5 years. Very few breaks. So last week, after 3 days taper & 3 break... Just 1 damn gram for Break Fast lol... bingo felt like my ol' self again! I guess it's my preference to be addicted then. One G servings, Red bubble, 2 to 3X per day.

[Kelleytoons]

I haven't been using it nearly as long, Mr. B, but I have taken three or four day breaks from time to time - it's not *wonderful" (in that I miss it) but it doesn't do anything to my body in any physical way. Then again, even using it daily I'm using no more than around six grams.

But - who really knows? We're pretty sure the mind can control the body in ways even science hasn't figured out (or those folks who can slow down their heart rate by their mind are just... weird). So perhaps the psychosomatic effect of "needing kratom" changes your body in ways the chemistry can't.

[Lokey]

I wonder when I wake up if I'm in withdrawal or it's just that the kratom wore off and my usual health problems are the worst. I've never felt good when I first wake up but these days it's impossible to believe the transformation I feel after some kratom and caffeine and even then I have to push myself to get in the shower.

[mivanqua]

There are far, far worse things to be addicted to than kratom. I seriously don't worry about using it 3x a day because of how beneficial it is to me. Life is much better for me with kratom in my system. I'd probably be dead without it

Word!

[Babel-17]

To paraphrase the old Richard Pryor joke, "Kratom ain't addictive, I got a friend who takes ten grams, ten times a day, and he still ain't hooked!".

I quit smoking in April 2011, after being a smoker for well over twenty years, and I've had some times where I'd regularly get inebriated several times a week. I've also for a time used "legal speed", ephedrine, and then later ephedra, and later still pseudoephedrine. I've always used caffeine, but a few times in the past I had periods where I used little or none.

I also was partial to opiates for a couple of years when I was much younger, but unsurprisingly that proved near impossible to manage well. So I guess when it comes to myself (we're all different, though we can share similarities) I have some experience in the vagaries of addiction. For me, Kratom is definitely habit forming, and somewhat addictive. I won't agonize over trying to delineate with any exactitude just how addictive it is, but I'd put it as easier to get off of than smoking, and easier to stop using than the strongest legal speeds. Not drinking (I've had like maybe seven drinks over the last ten years, and not all that many more in the ten years before that) was easier than I judge forever stop using Kratom would be, and I'm pretty sure that if both caffeine and Kratom were taken away from me, and after a month I could get one back, I'd choose the Kratom. So more addictive, to me, than booze or caffeine.

Though to be honest I've found other substances, like Rhodiola or the Racetams, neither of which I've used lately, which I'm pretty sure could give me the "edge" I've been getting from caffeine, albeit coffee and tea can be something special.

If I had to stop using Kratom, I'd probably start using Kava Kava extract powder again, and some other herbal mood enhancers. There's Incarvillea Sinensis as well, but since it tickles our opiate receptors, I guess using it could be considered as not really quitting using Kratom.

Edit: A clip from News Radio, the episode where Dave gets Bill to quit smoking by promising to give up coffee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7EFfdX8Rs

[PistolsAtDawn]

Edit: A clip from News Radio, the episode where Dave gets Bill to quit smoking by promising to give up coffee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7EFfdX8Rs

I loved that show! I still miss Phil Hartman.

[mivanqua]

Edit: A clip from News Radio, the episode where Dave gets Bill to quit smoking by promising to give up coffee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7EFfdX8Rs

I loved that show! I still miss Phil Hartman.

Yeah, me too. Why would you shoot Phil Hartman? I'll never understand wanting to be the person responsible for murdering one of the funniest human beings ever on planet Earth. I'll bet he could make you laugh in ANY situation. That's a valuable thing in my opinion.

[PistolsAtDawn]

Yeah, me too. Why would you shoot Phil Hartman? I'll never understand wanting to be the person responsible for murdering one of the funniest human beings ever on planet Earth. I'll bet he could make you laugh in ANY situation. That's a valuable thing in my opinion.

The story that I've been able to piece together is that his wife had struggled with addiction in the past, and Andy Dick got her off the wagon again. This spiraled out of control, and she killed him and then herself, leaving their two children orphaned.

John Lovitz, who you probably remember replaced Bill's character on News Radio, openly fought with Andy Dick about this in public one time. He blamed him for Phil's death. IIRC (not certain anymore), it came to physical blows before being broken up by bystanders. Fucking sad.

Zap Brannigan on Futurama was written for Phil Hartman, but he never got the chance. That's why his voice actor sounds a little like Phil Hartman when he does Zap.

[Kelleytoons]

Phil should have left her (and taken the kids). I suspect he was FAR too nice a guy to do that.

Everyone in Hollywood always said how nice he was. The world lost a HUGE talent unnecessarily (we just got through watching SNLs Christmas compilation and it's amazing how talented he was).

[Totomman]

Yes, it’s addictive and you have to use Simone biles levels of mental gymnastics to say it’s not.
Caffeine is addictive
Bread is addictive (quit carbs and ull poop water for a week)

It’s the level of addiction. Everyone is different. FOR ME, I had mental cravings for 3 months. Physically, I “needed” hirtsuta and stem and vein. Some people here take breaks easy, no symptoms so…

[Totomman]

Color me extremely skeptical about this claim. Unless we have scientific evidence (and we don't) I still say it's not addictive. The SCIENCE says it doesn't hit the opioid sensors that ARE addictive. Therefore if someone claims they are addicted my first reaction would be 1. They took it adulterated. or 2. BS (and possibly pushed by Big Pharma).

But - believe what you want. Again, there just isn't any science behind believing it is, but that never stops people from believing a whole lot of crap (like gas stoves are bad. Sigh).

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence though. Unless you think the people are lying. I personally know (well internet friends) that 100% go through withdrawal. I have too. And the people I’m talking about are 80% tfh. I’ve had “fiends” ask me for a kratom gift card because they’re almost out and can’t do their job without it. Fused flora is pretty active on here, ask him how much hirsuta he sells for breaks. I’m also curious how often people email “I’ll pay $100 if u overnight it” panicking
I’d also argue there is science behind it. It activates “some” receptor. Science tells us if a receptor is activated 1000 days in a row and on day 1001 it’s not, there’s gonna be problems. My ex was a runner. Didn’t not run 3 miles for 4-5 years. She’d get physical symptoms if she couldn’t run. I guess her body got used to that dopamine hit EVERY morning at 6am

[Kelleytoons]

Almost ALL of what you describe is what I said earlier - psychological. And, yes, you can have your mind convince your body to get sick, for sure.

But actual physical effects are denied by the science. And, as I say again, a lot of folks don't like that so just believe what you want (but I can promise you this - if there was ANY science that showed this kratom would have been banned quicker than you can imagine. Big Pharma and the FDA were hot as hell to do it but they couldn't even make any up, so they failed. If THEY failed, you can take it to the bank that no one is ever going to prove otherwise).

[Totomman]

Almost ALL of what you describe is what I said earlier - psychological. And, yes, you can have your mind convince your body to get sick, for sure.

But actual physical effects are denied by the science. And, as I say again, a lot of folks don't like that so just believe what you want (but I can promise you this - if there was ANY science that showed this kratom would have been banned quicker than you can imagine. Big Pharma and the FDA were hot as hell to do it but they couldn't even make any up, so they failed. If THEY failed, you can take it to the bank that no one is ever going to prove otherwise).

So in your opinion, none of the “thf” members will get cold chills if they quit 30gpd, tomorrow?

[Totomman]

Almost ALL of what you describe is what I said earlier - psychological. And, yes, you can have your mind convince your body to get sick, for sure.

But actual physical effects are denied by the science. And, as I say again, a lot of folks don't like that so just believe what you want (but I can promise you this - if there was ANY science that showed this kratom would have been banned quicker than you can imagine. Big Pharma and the FDA were hot as hell to do it but they couldn't even make any up, so they failed. If THEY failed, you can take it to the bank that no one is ever going to prove otherwise).

Not true. There’s MANY MANY MANY “herbals” that are physically addictive and aren’t banned. That shit that was in 4 loco was physically addictive

[Csharpe]

Almost ALL of what you describe is what I said earlier - psychological. And, yes, you can have your mind convince your body to get sick, for sure.

But actual physical effects are denied by the science. And, as I say again, a lot of folks don't like that so just believe what you want (but I can promise you this - if there was ANY science that showed this kratom would have been banned quicker than you can imagine. Big Pharma and the FDA were hot as hell to do it but they couldn't even make any up, so they failed. If THEY failed, you can take it to the bank that no one is ever going to prove otherwise).

Not true. There’s MANY MANY MANY “herbals” that are physically addictive and aren’t banned. That shit that was in 4 loco was physically addictive

Ahh hearing 4 locos brings back horrible memories of high school/college lol

I do think it varies from person to person, for whatever reason some folks have a higher affinity for addiction/withdrawals. I think there’s different layers as to why as well.. the people I’ve talked to that have the worst experiences either have taken it for a long time or take a huge amount daily.. whether that be powder or extracts… Also if they used kratom to come off opioids/opiates if you never let your receptors reset so to speak that’s gonna make withdrawals way worse.

But then you have people like Ballz who is only taking 3-5 gpd and I’ve seen him talk about he doesn’t even take in the plant matter still experiencing 3 days of hell. Like most things kratom related it’s mostly anecdotal and hopefully more human studies will be done in the future. Tell me if I’m wrong but aren’t those studies Kelley is alluding to only based off of Mitragynine? Not the byproducts and other alks

[Fhietra899]

Color me extremely skeptical about this claim. Unless we have scientific evidence (and we don't) I still say it's not addictive. The SCIENCE says it doesn't hit the opioid sensors that ARE addictive. Therefore if someone claims they are addicted my first reaction would be 1. They took it adulterated. or 2. BS (and possibly pushed by Big Pharma).

But - believe what you want. Again, there just isn't any science behind believing it is, but that never stops people from believing a whole lot of crap (like gas stoves are bad. Sigh).

Its just my opinion, i think lets make an attention to "Dopamine" If i'm now wrong this neuromodulatory that called Dopamine that makes you seeks pleasures sensations and experiences. As we know kratom give several good mood booster, anti depresant, good painkiller, energetic effects, and also euphoric that makes this "Dopamine" will seek for it if its gone from our daily.
Everythings that makes and create pleasure effects will reacted by Dopamine and its will seek if its gone.

[Kelleytoons]

Again, folks, you are missing the forest for the trees - if there was ANY evidence (even made up shit) this was addictive it wouldn't be available. End of story.

But - I'm wasting my time here on a pointless discussion, so I won't revisit this thread. Some folks just can't be taught.

[mivanqua]

How addictive is a substance? Well....how easy is it to put second on your priorities list? Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty easy in kratom's case! I never put heroin second back in the day. Heroin money came right off the top. Kratom money was never "supposed" to be rent. Y'know?

[dragonchaser]

Again, folks, you are missing the forest for the trees - if there was ANY evidence (even made up shit) this was addictive it wouldn't be available. End of story.

But - I'm wasting my time here on a pointless discussion, so I won't revisit this thread. Some folks just can't be taught.

No offense but that argument doesn't really mean anything. Phenibut for example is one of the most physically addictive drugs out there and it's been around for years, completely unregulated. Doesn't seem like that's gonna change any time soon. Some people get withdrawals from caffeine, some don't. I get a minor headache but some people are like completely disabled for days. Kratom is the same way, it's even related to coffee. Let's just say drugs effect everyone differently and leave it at that.

I would say I'm addicted to kratom but I could stop if I needed to, it's not really so much being addicted but how severe and detrimental it is. Like is being addicted to excercise or sex bad for your life? No, not unless you take it way too far. Goes for almost anything that has the potential to bring you pleasure. Read the quitting kratom sub on Reddit and you would say all those people are lying or have enhanced stuff? I doubt that. They just took it too far, any action has an equal opposite reaction, what goes up must come back down, the body is always trying to keep balance. I can definitely see both points of view though and I think all you guys made some great points