For those with chronic pain….

[Mimi]

What’s your top go to’s for daytime relief? Nighttime?

[Kelleytoons]

Liza's Red Headed Step Child and Happy Go Lucky are good. TFH has a number of ones I rely on, but Jolly Red Giant (nee 707) is my fave. Otie's House Mix is another reliable.

Those are mostly daytime uses - for night I use almost any red from TFH or Denette but Denette's Red Bone HAS to be in anyone's pain rotation (day or night nothing is better).

[BallzDeep9]

For real Chronic Pain, Plain Leaf powder just doesn't have enough alkaloids per gram ? Especially these days as quality is lower across the board...

The sooner people realize that "strains" of Plain Leaf are fake... the sooner they'll figure out HOW to adjust "spike" their Serving with a dab of quality Extract.

Real Chronic Pain folks, like Opioid Detox folks... are in a different world, where managing the Tolerance bug is way more important than batches and "strains"

[WhiteAngelica]

I have tried to keep my tolerance at a certain level over the years and it is hard, especially when my pain worsens every year.

Many of my go-to pain strains were already mentioned. I really like All Natural Artisan's Red Bali (you can also get it with extract) and PA Botanicals Red Fibro Blend (you can always get it enhanced/with extract.) But yes, some things stated are definitely in my repertoire and I couldn't be without it. Personally, I found that Texas Family Harvest's 'Master Crafted Red TFH' consistently covers the layers of pain I have going because by the end of the day, I'm like a rotted onion. Without the stank, but with the layers. Better metaphor: Russian Dolls that start with a pained body and larger layers cover it so by the evening I am busted. Thankfully, I take the kratom as mentioned before (except I haven't tried D's Red Bone because I just like misery, apparently) but everything else mentioned is my regimen. I highly recommend the All Natural Artisan's Red Bali, PA Botanicals, Liza's, Otie's House Mix and Super RMD, and what he said about Texas Family Harvest--I have had good luck with their stuff regarding pain because it lasts long with me--and the Denette Red Bone is everything, they say. I believe them & need to try some for myself.

There are others for pain, but that describes nearly my entire stash. My stash is modest because of $ issues, but everything in it is very purposeful for pain: daytime pain, evening pain, night pain. But I also want that extra magic to it--it isn't a glorified Tylenol but an experience. If I find something in my stash that isn't fitting my agenda, I sell it on the Trading Post or if I make a sampler, I like to include a cross section of the stuff I like. If you ever want a pain themed sampler, I can make you one! But I need to refill my ANA and try some Red Bone. It sounds like any anti-pain sampler requires the RB, as I trust the buddies here.

[WhiteAngelica]

Liza's Red Headed Step Child and Happy Go Lucky are good. TFH has a number of ones I rely on, but Jolly Red Giant (nee 707) is my fave. Otie's House Mix is another reliable.

Those are mostly daytime uses - for night I use almost any red from TFH or Denette but Denette's Red Bone HAS to be in anyone's pain rotation (day or night nothing is better).

I am hearing you and taking it very seriously that I do not have, not have I tried D's Red Bone and its absence in my pain arsenal is practically criminal. I have to do something about that. There are times I want to cut my legs off. I agree with your suggestions otherwise, btw

[WhiteAngelica]

Crap, you asked daytime vs nighttime. I definitely have both, but finding day reds is harder but not impossible!

[onespeedstop]

I am hearing you and taking it very seriously that I do not have, not have I tried D's Red Bone and its absence in my pain arsenal is practically criminal. I have to do something about that. There are times I want to cut my legs off. I agree with your suggestions otherwise, btw

I've had the legendary Red Bone (32 even) and his red 'Bali Strong' was even better for -pain- in my opinion. Not sure what supplier, but it does say RP8 on the bag (this is from 3 years back or so). I'm just mentioning it in case it's ever on his menu again. I wasn't even gonna get a red (in a split kilo) that time, but it said "strong" in the made-up strain name, so I went for it. A very lucky random last minute decision.

Other than that, whew, it's pretty hit and miss or random as to what is really truly gonna help with physical pain, I've found those 2, and a handful of others that are to a lesser degree. It's tough to find ones that will work for -you- personally.

[WhiteAngelica]

I am hearing you and taking it very seriously that I do not have, not have I tried D's Red Bone and its absence in my pain arsenal is practically criminal. I have to do something about that. There are times I want to cut my legs off. I agree with your suggestions otherwise, btw

I've had the legendary Red Bone (32 even) and his red 'Bali Strong' was even better for -pain- in my opinion. Not sure what supplier, but it does say RP8 on the bag (this is from 3 years back or so). I'm just mentioning it in case it's ever on his menu again. I wasn't even gonna get a red (in a split kilo) that time, but it said "strong" in the made-up strain name, so I went for it. A very lucky random last minute decision.

Other than that, whew, it's pretty hit and miss or random as to what is really truly gonna help with physical pain, I've found those 2, and a handful of others that are to a lesser degree. It's tough to find ones that will work for -you- personally.

Yeah, I basically only traffic in reds because of pain but there are definitely differences in how much pain each can obliterate. My pain increases throughout a day but my exhaustion lessens. I wake like the anemic corpse I am and take my fast reds and keep 'em fast or mid-spec until the evening. If I have extra stuff to do in the evening, I might keep going with fast reds that are great painkillers or slower reds that are great painkillers...and at night, I keep it all slow and put a second night kratom for when I wake in pain and I keep my am kratom right by my side too so I can slam it down as soon as I'm conscious-ish. Fast reds, plus caffeine.

I need to keep a list about this, though. I spend more time looking at how to rotate my strains so I don't get 'same strain syndrome' than I do assessing which of my reds will combat the degree of pain I'm in. Honestly, if it is really bad I will take a second kratom, so a double dose, in the event I want to cut my legs off. But I have had really good luck across the board and wish I could update my list but a few places are getting too expensive for me. This is like my medicine and the cost of kratom is my copay. I have to buy smart. Bless certain vendors for offering discount strains. I'd like to thank one with my life, for sure. But. I am going to think about this more and make a list. I HAVE gotten good strains in samplers of strains that worked great for me---but were no longer available. One was Denette's Red Thunder. Since then, I've waited on those red bones but if I see the word 'strong' in a strain name, I'm on it.

I know folks say other colors help their pain and I find that it does, but not to the extent of reds. The degree of coverage I get from reds is absolute and can pull me out of the abyss most of the time. But exhaustion makes it necessarily to add or blend with a nice potent PMD, Happy Go Lucky, or Otie's House Mix. TFH's Rocket Red XL is probably a very, very smart thing to have on hand. I'm eager to get some whenever. For now, I need to sit right with the strains I have and really think about the pain killing strength of these puppies. I want to make a killin' the pain themed sampler, but I don't have all the ingredients needed just yet.

[Chris Sarno]

I have a question as it pertains to pain treatment, I take six 50 mg tabs of tramadol every day, 300 mg daily total for six years, every day! I would like to immediately swap out the tramadol for kratom, Red Maeng Da, which my friend has been hard selling me on for over a year. Can someone with experience tell me, is it safe to start on the kratom 12 hours after last tramadol dose, and will the kratom eliminate any or all cessation syndrome symptoms??? My intention is to start with 3 grams (six kratom caps) and hope to entirely replace the tramadol! Thank you very much for your replies....

[Kelleytoons]

No one can give you a hard and fast answer to this - not only are there almost zero scientific studies, but the anecdotal evidence is all over the place. The one thing we can be sure of is that each individual reacts very differently to kratom no matter the dose, the batch or the circumstances.

But first a few facts - your friend is trying to sell you some kratom but you need to be aware that any kratom name is basically meaningless. Some vendor may call something "Red Maeng Da" and the EXACT SAME THING may be sold by another vendor as "Green Elephant". Names are just marketing tools and the only real identification for any kratom is batch number and date (assuming the vendor has supplied that). And, again, that same kratom that works well for your friend may not do a thing for you - you really just don't know. Same for dose - I would not, under ANY circumstances, start with more than two grams of any particular batch (one gram would be better - and you had better weigh it, even with capsules, because it varies widely. I know, I make my own capsules and four capsules of one batch can weigh as much as six capsules for another).

If your friend's kratom doesn't work for you I'd recommend buying from one of the many excellent small suppliers noted here - they offer high quality stuff which is far superior to most bulk vendors. And most will help you with your selection if you ask (or you can ask here).

With all that said, it would certainly be worth trying kratom to see if it works for you. I used to take a lot of opioids and drink alcohol and using kratom I was able to stop completely, cold turkey, without any issues. Kratom can be VERY effective as long as you keep some things in mind (make sure you have empty bowels, because if you are constipated it won't work well - having a BM prior to taking it is the best. I also believe an empty stomach is best but opinions on this differ). Kratom, even the very best, seldom works beyond five or six hours, so if you need more pain relief you may have to dose two or three times throughout the day. And less is more. I cannot stress this enough - if 4 grams does not work for you, try 3. If 3 does not, try 2. DO NOT take more in an effort to "chase the effects". Many people get excellent results on as little as 1 gram, but taking more than you need will actually make the effects work less.

Good luck to you and keep us posted.

[Chris Sarno]

Thank you for reply, my friend is NOT trying to sell me kratom, he is trying to sell me ON kratom! I do not have any practical experience with it, however I am not absent good understanding of the tramadol similarity to kratom, both are "partial agonists," both double as an anti-depressant, indeed, on paper, one thing be equal to the other, and on paper they strongly appear to be, kratom should seamlessly take over from the tramadol, so similar are their mechanisms of action! I just wanted know if anyone here had practical experience swapping one for the other, not some anecdotal account of having once used tramadol, but rather having been a daily, long term (greater than two years of daily intake) tramadol patient or user, and then one day, 12-hours after last tramadol dose, swapped that tramadol for kratom?

Somebody has done this, somebody has practical experience with this! What I do not want are the typical street fare anecdotal accounts absent a jot of data, data is very very important in this matter, and while kratom may be subjective to individual, and batch, knowing the exact amount of tramadol, or whatever prescription pain killer you replaced with kratom is not! I will not just swap one for the other absent a decent understanding based upon first hand experiences doing so reported by others! Again thank you....

[xymoriintus]

Thank you for reply, my friend is NOT trying to sell me kratom, he is trying to sell me ON kratom! I do not have any practical experience with it, however I am not absent good understanding of the tramadol similarity to kratom, both are "partial agonists," both double as an anti-depressant, indeed, on paper, one thing be equal to the other, and on paper they strongly appear to be, kratom should seamlessly take over from the tramadol, so similar are their mechanisms of action! I just wanted know if anyone here had practical experience swapping one for the other, not some anecdotal account of having once used tramadol, but rather having been a daily, long term (greater than two years of daily intake) tramadol patient or user, and then one day, 12-hours after last tramadol dose, swapped that tramadol for kratom?

Somebody has done this, somebody has practical experience with this! What I do not want are the typical street fare anecdotal accounts absent a jot of data, data is very very important in this matter, and while kratom may be subjective to individual, and batch, knowing the exact amount of tramadol, or whatever prescription pain killer you replaced with kratom is not! I will not just swap one for the other absent a decent understanding based upon first hand experiences doing so reported by others! Again thank you....

As the quote goes "you'll never know unless you try it"

And a few years ago when I first started using kratom I did an "experiment" where I took a 10 mg Percocet one day then dosed kratom the next day. Bro I swear to you I got a lot better effects from the kratom vs the pill. Try it though, you have nothing to lose and if you don't like it then you can at least say you tried it

[Badgame85]

Be aware that any kratom name is basically meaningless. Some vendor may call something "Red Maeng Da" and the EXACT SAME THING may be sold by another vendor as "Green Elephant". Names are just marketing tools and the only real identification for any kratom is batch number and date (assuming the vendor has supplied that).

I swear I wish there was a way to mass communicate this to all new people. This is the worst misconception in my opinion, and SOOO many people buy into this crap thus supporting vendors with garbage products because they like a certain name or think the name is synonymous with all other vendors products.

[Chris Sarno]

I believe your account, however that is exactly what I mean by an anecdotal account. Far more impactful to someone such as myself, is what was your "exact daily dose" of percocet and for how long? Follow me? I have not missed a single dose of tramadol in just over six years, 300 mg daily in six separate doses, I have never abused it, taken it exactly as prescribed, and I am curious as to whether kratom will eliminate out of hand, any cessation syndrome if I switch!

For instance, and this is very important, we all hear anecdotal accounts of folks kicking heroin with just kratom, and while I believe them more or less, I also know this, such accounts are entirely lacking in any detail whatsoever, we are just told "wow" I got of heroin with kratom, it really works! Here's the problem with that kind of extremely loose reporting, heroin is a full agonist, kratom a partial agonist, yet nowhere in these accounts do the subjects detail the most important element, how long after ceasing heroin did you run to kratom?

Such is important because if you did your last dose of heroin last night, and awoke in morning and immediately dosed with kratom, you would immediately provoke "precipitated withdrawl syndrome," because the kratom is only a partial agonist your body would launch full counter attack against such and you would I assure you never touch kratom again! In other words you must already be in full cessation syndrome to start on the kratom, yet I have never heard a single detailed account of such from anyone!

Like I said, on paper tramadol and kratom appear to be swappable because both are "partial agonists," they even compete at the same metabolic levels....

[xymoriintus]

I believe your account, however that is exactly what I mean by an anecdotal account. Far more impactful to someone such as myself, is what was your "exact daily dose" of percocet and for how long? Follow me? I have not missed a single dose of tramadol in just over six years, 300 mg daily in six separate doses, I have never abused it, taken it exactly as prescribed, and I am curious as to whether kratom will eliminate out of hand, any cessation syndrome if I switch!

For instance, and this is very important, we all hear anecdotal accounts of folks kicking heroin with just kratom, and while I believe them more or less, I also know this, such accounts are entirely lacking in any detail whatsoever, we are just told "wow" I got of heroin with kratom, it really works! Here's the problem with that kind of extremely loose reporting, heroin is a full agonist, kratom a partial agonist, yet nowhere in these accounts do the subjects detail the most important element, how long after ceasing heroin did you run to kratom?

Such is important because if you did your last dose of heroin last night, and awoke in morning and immediately dosed with kratom, you would immediately provoke "precipitated withdrawl syndrome," because the kratom is only a partial agonist your body would launch full counter attack against such and you would I assure you never touch kratom again! In other words you must already be in full cessation syndrome to start on the kratom, yet I have never heard a single detailed account of such from anyone!

Like I said, on paper tramadol and kratom appear to be swappable because both are "partial agonists," they even compete at the same metabolic levels....

I didn't use Percocet on a daily basis. But like I said just try it once instead of wondering about it. You have nothing to lose

[MikeEdoessomething]

Yes, my mother and myself both swapped Tramadol for Kratom (and my father has done the same thing)

We were all prescribed 200mg of Tramadol a day (4 tablets a day). I was on Tramadol for about 5 years but my mother had been on it for well over a decade and my father was on Tramadol for even longer I believe. I have an autoimmune disease/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and my mother has Fibromyalgia, just for reference for why we were prescribed Tramadol

After the first dose of kratom in 2015, we never touched a single Tramadol again! It was that instant, because the difference with kratom was so much better! I can't tell you exactly how many hours it was after my last Tramadol dose before trying Kratom (don't remember exact specifics), but I remember trying the kratom in the afternoon and I always took Tramadol when I first woke up in the morning (as my Mother did as well), so I would estimate my last Tramadol dose before trying kratom was 4-6 hours. And from that moment it's been Kratom ever since.

It did take a few trial attempts with the kratom,finding the correct dosage (everyone is different, so dose size is often hard to find your "sweet spot" or what kratom dose works for you). It took me about the first 4 kratom tries before I found 2 gram doses was perfect for me (my Mother takes 6 gram doses). We haven't changed our dose size in all these years with the kratom, and still get the same pain relief. Unlike the Tramadol which we'd built up tolerance towards and wasn't working much after years of use and was basically just taking the edge off of pain instead of providing pain relief.

So yes, my mother and I made a quick and easy switch from Tramadol to Kratom. Literally after years of Tramadol use by both of us, after trying kratom for the first time, we never looked back and been taking kratom daily instead

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, just let me know

[pray4peace4]

I never have enough good timing to find out when Deneuve has customer openings, so I've never had the opportunity to try his Red Bone. The best pain killer ever for me was TFH Red Muna(no longer available). Which was weird because that strain never did anything for me otherwise & I thought it was a dud until I broke a tooth over a holiday weekend & tried it out of desperation. Then I used it again when I broke a couple ribs. Wow - it was fantastic for pain relief. I find TFH Reds tend to be good for pain, but those are 95% daytime only reds. I tore some muscles 3 weeks ago & am really struggling pain-wise, but I get about a 70% pain reduction from TFH Warm Embrace, but it comes with a price. Never, ever take it near bedtime. I made that mistake twice & never again. Otherwise it kicks in fairly quickly, maybe under 10 minutes, but the stimulants kick in, too, & that makes me sweat something terrible. I need pain relief with sedation & can't find any for my evenings.

[Kelleytoons]

Ya know, I'm kinda glad you said this (not to take TFH reds near bedtime).

I use reds at night to get into the "sleepy time" and my rotation has a ton of TFH in it and for the last two nights I've had a terrible time sleeping and I went back and looked and... sure enough, TFH reds were on the menu those evenings. So now I'm going to experiment and NOT use TFH Reds at night (luckily I have a lot of Denette's reds, as well as plenty of others - heck, I just got the DRHK4 which is supposed to act like one as well as the Wild Red Bali from Lonestar who swears it is wonderful - I'll have plenty of alternatives).

I'm not saying for sure it was the TFH Reds, but at least it gives me something else to try.

[OriginalLHB]

I believe your account, however that is exactly what I mean by an anecdotal account. Far more impactful to someone such as myself, is what was your "exact daily dose" of percocet and for how long? Follow me? I have not missed a single dose of tramadol in just over six years, 300 mg daily in six separate doses, I have never abused it, taken it exactly as prescribed, and I am curious as to whether kratom will eliminate out of hand, any cessation syndrome if I switch!

For instance, and this is very important, we all hear anecdotal accounts of folks kicking heroin with just kratom, and while I believe them more or less, I also know this, such accounts are entirely lacking in any detail whatsoever, we are just told "wow" I got of heroin with kratom, it really works! Here's the problem with that kind of extremely loose reporting, heroin is a full agonist, kratom a partial agonist, yet nowhere in these accounts do the subjects detail the most important element, how long after ceasing heroin did you run to kratom?

Such is important because if you did your last dose of heroin last night, and awoke in morning and immediately dosed with kratom, you would immediately provoke "precipitated withdrawl syndrome," because the kratom is only a partial agonist your body would launch full counter attack against such and you would I assure you never touch kratom again! In other words you must already be in full cessation syndrome to start on the kratom, yet I have never heard a single detailed account of such from anyone!

Like I said, on paper tramadol and kratom appear to be swappable because both are "partial agonists," they even compete at the same metabolic levels....

I just came upon this post, and it is so full of dangerous misinformation that I had to respond.

The ONLY substance in general circulation apart from NarCan that will cause precipitated opioid withdrawal is Buprenorphine (Subutex, Suboxone) because it is a partial agonist and partial ANTAGONIST. Partial agonists do not cause precipitated withdrawal. Not to belabor the point, but I have used Kratom to get off of Subs twice and am now opioid free for 10 months. The proper time to use Kratom is the minute that withdrawals start getting uncomfortable. I would never have made it otherwise. The reason that Kratom is so successful in attenuating withdrawal symptoms is that it is a partial agonist. Many thousands of people have used Kratom in this way with great success. No way does Kratom cause precipitated withdrawal in any way, shape of form.

[mivanqua]

Uhm...lemme stop your right there...

I quit heroin cold turkey. IV habit. I WISH I had some kratom to help me.
I had nothing, and as most know, pot makes it many × worse.

You can call it anecdotal all you want, I've never in my life ever met a junkie that kratom didn't soothe at least a little. This anecdotal shit is for the birds, man. Good for heroin withdrawal GUARANTEED. Just thought I'd chime in on the ridiculous "anecdotal don't mean married" routine there, buddy.

[WhiteAngelica]

I never have enough good timing to find out when Deneuve has customer openings, so I've never had the opportunity to try his Red Bone. The best pain killer ever for me was TFH Red Muna(no longer available). Which was weird because that strain never did anything for me otherwise & I thought it was a dud until I broke a tooth over a holiday weekend & tried it out of desperation. Then I used it again when I broke a couple ribs. Wow - it was fantastic for pain relief. I find TFH Reds tend to be good for pain, but those are 95% daytime only reds. I tore some muscles 3 weeks ago & am really struggling pain-wise, but I get about a 70% pain reduction from TFH Warm Embrace, but it comes with a price. Never, ever take it near bedtime. I made that mistake twice & never again. Otherwise it kicks in fairly quickly, maybe under 10 minutes, but the stimulants kick in, too, & that makes me sweat something terrible. I need pain relief with sedation & can't find any for my evenings.

Hi. I can't recall if I responded to you before, but pain relief with sedation for evenings...I can recommend a few things that I save exactly for this purpose.

You probably have tried TFH Baik Bali Especiale. It works for me with this purpose, but I have a bunch of recs.

First, Liza. She has the Red Headed Stepchild, but also blends like Relaxer Elixir, and one that is specifically for sleep. I cannot remember the name, but if you go to her site, it will be under blends. I highly recommend these. I also have never had the chance to try Red Bone, so I would ask the trading Post if someone has something you can sample--I have thought of doing the same.

Another bedtime favorite for me is Viable Solutions Maha Kali. He lists a great coupon code here for the community and it's 20% off and free shipping.

All Natural Artisan's Red Bali has been a great evening/night kratom for me.

Nodfather has reds that are much more sedating and relaxing than other vendors. He has regular items, and items from the discount bin. I got something called Red Nostr that I have been taking every night for sleep, which I often combine with another of his, Super Red Sats.

I also sleep from Otie's Red Gold.

If you can't find some of these, I'd inquire from the Trading Post. If you want to try the Nodfather, I can send you some. Currently, I'm out of my Liza's, Viable Solutions, and All Natural Artisan's. If I get more, I can send. I am always in pain btw and have wretched insomnia, so it is essential I have some sleepy reds and ideally a slow gold I can sprinkle on top like a fine garnish.

With Liza's, the stuff I mentioned for pain and sleep is great and it is her blends that really shine. I would NOT recommend the Happy Go Lucky for night, even though it is excellent. You can get a split or a sampler and include the three blends I mentioned. Also, as a general rule if you can stand Bents, Bentuangie's slay pain and sleep deep.

[BallzDeep9]

Partial agonists do not cause precipitated withdrawal. Not to belabor the point, but I have used Kratom to get off of Subs twice... and am now opioid free for 10 months. The proper time to use Kratom is the minute that withdrawals start getting uncomfortable. I would never have made it otherwise. The reason that Kratom is so successful in attenuating withdrawal symptoms is that it is a partial agonist. Many thousands of people have used Kratom in this way with great success. No way does Kratom cause precipitated withdrawal in any way, shape of form.

Thanks for clarifying - Absolutely correct, "Precipitated" meaning = Forced withdrawal, that's entirely different compared to just feeling sick because of high Tolerance. Which is the simple explanation for hard opiate addiction - Even a low dose Heroin user, has a high, full agonist, opioid tolerance which is way more than kratom can handle... But kratom can "partially" satisfy the addiction for many Users.

However it's like anything else, people are different - Those with a super HIGH tolerance - Big Daily Habit - need to taper down first, or get medical detox - before Kratom has much effect. I've done heroin & had friends over the years... many who still maintain that Tolerance. They all just laugh at Kratom... wink wink. Oh right Kratom. That green dirt stuff that doesn't DO anything ?? ha ha. That's the attitude... we're still friends.

Forced withdrawal from "getting busted" & doing time in JAIL - Is 1 main reason why people O-D. When released from Jail, they don't realize their Tolerance has been lowered down and the same old dose of Fent - kills them. Getting released from JAIL - actually might be a good time to start on Kratom!

[Valikth]

I never have enough good timing to find out when Deneuve has customer openings, so I've never had the opportunity to try his Red Bone. The best pain killer ever for me was TFH Red Muna(no longer available). Which was weird because that strain never did anything for me otherwise & I thought it was a dud until I broke a tooth over a holiday weekend & tried it out of desperation. Then I used it again when I broke a couple ribs. Wow - it was fantastic for pain relief. I find TFH Reds tend to be good for pain, but those are 95% daytime only reds. I tore some muscles 3 weeks ago & am really struggling pain-wise, but I get about a 70% pain reduction from TFH Warm Embrace, but it comes with a price. Never, ever take it near bedtime. I made that mistake twice & never again. Otherwise it kicks in fairly quickly, maybe under 10 minutes, but the stimulants kick in, too, & that makes me sweat something terrible. I need pain relief with sedation & can't find any for my evenings.

Hi. I can't recall if I responded to you before, but pain relief with sedation for evenings...I can recommend a few things that I save exactly for this purpose.

You probably have tried TFH Baik Bali Especiale. It works for me with this purpose, but I have a bunch of recs.

First, Liza. She has the Red Headed Stepchild, but also blends like Relaxer Elixir, and one that is specifically for sleep. I cannot remember the name, but if you go to her site, it will be under blends. I highly recommend these. I also have never had the chance to try Red Bone, so I would ask the trading Post if someone has something you can sample--I have thought of doing the same.

Another bedtime favorite for me is Viable Solutions Maha Kali. He lists a great coupon code here for the community and it's 20% off and free shipping.

All Natural Artisan's Red Bali has been a great evening/night kratom for me.

Nodfather has reds that are much more sedating and relaxing than other vendors. He has regular items, and items from the discount bin. I got something called Red Nostr that I have been taking every night for sleep, which I often combine with another of his, Super Red Sats.

I also sleep from Otie's Red Gold.

If you can't find some of these, I'd inquire from the Trading Post. If you want to try the Nodfather, I can send you some. Currently, I'm out of my Liza's, Viable Solutions, and All Natural Artisan's. If I get more, I can send. I am always in pain btw and have wretched insomnia, so it is essential I have some sleepy reds and ideally a slow gold I can sprinkle on top like a fine garnish.

With Liza's, the stuff I mentioned for pain and sleep is great and it is her blends that really shine. I would NOT recommend the Happy Go Lucky for night, even though it is excellent. You can get a split or a sampler and include the three blends I mentioned. Also, as a general rule if you can stand Bents, Bentuangie's slay pain and sleep deep.

I think youre thinking of lizas sleepy blend

By the way i really like lizas as well. so i recommend her stuff too.

[WhiteAngelica]

I never have enough good timing to find out when Deneuve has customer openings, so I've never had the opportunity to try his Red Bone. The best pain killer ever for me was TFH Red Muna(no longer available). Which was weird because that strain never did anything for me otherwise & I thought it was a dud until I broke a tooth over a holiday weekend & tried it out of desperation. Then I used it again when I broke a couple ribs. Wow - it was fantastic for pain relief. I find TFH Reds tend to be good for pain, but those are 95% daytime only reds. I tore some muscles 3 weeks ago & am really struggling pain-wise, but I get about a 70% pain reduction from TFH Warm Embrace, but it comes with a price. Never, ever take it near bedtime. I made that mistake twice & never again. Otherwise it kicks in fairly quickly, maybe under 10 minutes, but the stimulants kick in, too, & that makes me sweat something terrible. I need pain relief with sedation & can't find any for my evenings.

PS: TFH has right now 'Mystic Muna' and it is red. It is supposed to be slow and I'm guessing if red Muna was your jam, this would be as well.

[IdiopathicPain247]

When Kratom is used for chronic pain, can the feeling of pain get worse when the Kratom wears off? I know of tolerance issues where you need a larger dose to help with the "same" pain. Last night my pain was worse than usual. Strange.

[Kelleytoons]

As we all know, pain is relative and how we perceive it can change over a wide variety of situations.

I suppose if you were feeling relief and then it came back it would be difficult to evaluate whether it was worse than before - it might have more to do with a lot of other things than how you felt relief for a while. I've never heard of kratom making pain more intense, but nothing about this powder would surprise me anymore.