Mitragynine percentage?

[brassy]

Apologies because this has probably been discussed here already, but when I did a quick search nothing came up. I have noticed that more of the website vendors have started putting the percentage of Mitragynine in the details of each product listings.

I dismissed it as another marketing trend, like coming up with dreamy psychedelic names for strains. I figured most of the vendors doing it probably just make the numbers up to move product. I mean, occasionally I'll get an order from a trusted vendor where one or two bags in the batch will include the Mitragynine percentage on the label in addition to the lot number, but mostly they don't. I would have thought it would be prohibitively expensive to test every batch for Mitragynine in addition to testing for mold, lead, etc.

Anyhow, putting aside the issue of whether or not Mitragynine levels are even an indicator of kratom potency, I'm curious about this.

[OriginalLHB]

Apologies because this has probably been discussed here already, but when I did a quick search nothing came up. I have noticed that more of the website vendors have started putting the percentage of Mitragynine in the details of each product listings.

I dismissed it as another marketing trend, like coming up with dreamy psychedelic names for strains. I figured most of the vendors doing it probably just make the numbers up to move product. I mean, occasionally I'll get an order from a trusted vendor where one or two bags in the batch will include the Mitragynine percentage on the label in addition to the lot number, but mostly they don't. I would have thought it would be prohibitively expensive to test every batch for Mitragynine in addition to testing for mold, lead, etc.

Anyhow, putting aside the issue of whether or not Mitragynine levels are even an indicator of kratom potency, I'm curious about this.

Everything else held constant, MIT% is AN indicator of potency, but not the only indicator. Everybody has their own rules of thumb, but generally I consider anything above 1.6% to be potent, and anything above 1.8% to be very potent. Most of the leaf I use these days does not post MIT numbers, but I don't have very much that does that's above 1.7% that I can honestly say doesn't hit pretty hard. On the other hand, I bought some stuff that will remain nameless last winter that tested at over 1.9% and I didn't like it. It made me irritable and restless, and I wasn't the only one.

[Yeezit]

Whenever I dosed leaf that was over 1.8% MIT I did not like it. My best burns have come from 1.4-1.6% MIT. I feel that’s the sweet spot you want your MIT % & I’m sure there others who will agree with me. There seems to be a market for extremely high MIT % though but I’m not in that market.

[boureka]

In the absence of thorough long term studies of this plant, let's agree that we're all shooting from the hip when we propose things about this mysterious leaf.
And this been said before and better (Ballz comes to mind here.) It's not just the mit percentage that makes for a great kratom burn. It's the full complement of alkaloids doing their mysterious synergy dance that gives you the mitrogynia speciosa experience.

[terposton]

In the absence of thorough long term studies of this plant, let's agree that we're all shooting from the hip when we propose things about this mysterious leaf.
And this been said before and better (Ballz comes to mind here.) It's not just the mit percentage that makes for a great kratom burn. It's the full complement of alkaloids doing their mysterious synergy dance that gives you the mitrogynia speciosa experience.

Oh I agree with you and of course Ballz so much on this one. I've been using Kratom for nearly 8 years and there are some that I have that are strong, but I don't get that happy feeling. That's why I almost always use Texas Family Harvest because Chris does something with the way he mixes or picks his strains so that they give you a happy feeling. I have some other vendors that I like okay but there is something about TFH that just feel good so I know it's not all about the mit percentage.

[Nelson Baboon]

In the absence of thorough long term studies of this plant, let's agree that we're all shooting from the hip when we propose things about this mysterious leaf.
And this been said before and better (Ballz comes to mind here.) It's not just the mit percentage that makes for a great kratom burn. It's the full complement of alkaloids doing their mysterious synergy dance that gives you the mitrogynia speciosa experience.

Oh I agree with you and of course Ballz so much on this one. I've been using Kratom for nearly 8 years and there are some that I have that are strong, but I don't get that happy feeling. That's why I almost always use Texas Family Harvest because Chris does something with the way he mixes or picks his strains so that they give you a happy feeling. I have some other vendors that I like okay but there is something about TFH that just feel good so I know it's not all about the mit percentage.

i think that it's partly that people feel good because they've been allowed in as members.

[mivanqua]

In the absence of thorough long term studies of this plant, let's agree that we're all shooting from the hip when we propose things about this mysterious leaf.
And this been said before and better (Ballz comes to mind here.) It's not just the mit percentage that makes for a great kratom burn. It's the full complement of alkaloids doing their mysterious synergy dance that gives you the mitrogynia speciosa experience.

Oh I agree with you and of course Ballz so much on this one. I've been using Kratom for nearly 8 years and there are some that I have that are strong, but I don't get that happy feeling. That's why I almost always use Texas Family Harvest because Chris does something with the way he mixes or picks his strains so that they give you a happy feeling. I have some other vendors that I like okay but there is something about TFH that just feel good so I know it's not all about the mit percentage.

He's tried drying and curing it...what's the phrase? Eight ways to Sunday,? That's why. He's put in the time and knows how to do the trick.
I don't get that feeling (I think that's what we call "mood boost" around here) very often, not even from TFH, I think that feeling has more to do with external factors (NAMELY what you ate three hours before you took your dose, ie was it nice and fatty?) Not to say TFH isn't some special leaf sometimes, because it CERTAINLY IS, but external factors play a huge part. You know...I THINK SO...I don't have anything to bring it out of the anecdotal world if that's what you are looking for. Everyone is different.)

[brassy]

Thanks everyone, appreciate the information. I wasn't necessarily thinking a higher percentage was better, merely observing that posting percentages seems to be "trendy" right now. I figured the numbers had to be fake, in most cases. Seems like a ton of website maintenance to have to update the percentage of Mit. on every single product description each time a new batch comes in. Kratom's a decent business, but not profitable enough for vendors to have f/t webmasters, right?

[mivanqua]

Right, brassy. Nice to see you, by the way. I feel.like it's been a really long time.
What are numbers,.REALLY?

It can be faked all the way up to the labs themselves. What if they don't feel like doing all six of someone's samples and just do three and makes up the rest? What if a vendor does that? Let's see, 1.22% mit .003% 7-OHM did I do that right? Haha! You get my point, though I'm sure.

Bottom line, you just have to trust somewhat even though that's the hardest thing to do of all these days.

[BallzDeep9]

I wasn't necessarily thinking a higher percentage was better, merely observing that posting percentages seems to be "trendy" right now. I figured the numbers had to be fake, in most cases. Seems like a ton of website maintenance to have to update the percentage of Mit. on every single product description each time a new batch comes in. Kratom's a decent business, but not profitable enough for vendors to have f/t webmasters, right?

Mitragynine IS the "active ingredient" so... Of course, a higher % = "better". Meaning... stronger. You want stronger kratom ? OR you want weaker kratom ? Pretty simple... Questions about Total alkaloids ... and trace amounts, and 7-Hydroxymitragynine, and others ~ IS a much bigger science discussion. To keep it simple = Mitragynine IS the major active. Many of the others, are there in direct ratio to the MIT % content!

YES, real Lab Testing, and Labels showing "Whats In the Bag", with MIT % and Batch # and date and other information ... IS a good thing. A "good trend" ? OK. Better than the opposite = NO labels... NO lab tests... Shady dealer types in chat rooms, peddling dirty bags of brownish powder marked w/ sharpie letters (and containing a bit O' Salmonella maybe ?) ~ better ? Or worse ??

So I agree with AKA - also AHPA (American Herbal Products Assn) - Professional is better. Testing & labels = better quality kratom in 2023. Sure there's exceptions to everything. We've come a long ways ~ Five years ago, the Legal status was questionable, and vendors didn't want to invest in a business that could get shut down. NOW ~ Kratom is absolutely LEGAL and here to stay, and it's only getting better from here!!

[Nelson Baboon]

I wasn't necessarily thinking a higher percentage was better, merely observing that posting percentages seems to be "trendy" right now. I figured the numbers had to be fake, in most cases. Seems like a ton of website maintenance to have to update the percentage of Mit. on every single product description each time a new batch comes in. Kratom's a decent business, but not profitable enough for vendors to have f/t webmasters, right?

Mitragynine IS the "active ingredient" so... Of course, a higher % = "better". Meaning... stronger. You want stronger kratom ? OR you want weaker kratom ? Pretty simple... Questions about Total alkaloids ... and trace amounts, and 7-Hydroxymitragynine, and others ~ IS a much bigger science discussion. To keep it simple = Mitragynine IS the major active. Many of the others, are there in direct ratio to the MIT % content!

YES, real Lab Testing, and Labels showing "Whats In the Bag", with MIT % and Batch # and date and other information ... IS a good thing. A "good trend" ? OK. Better than the opposite = NO labels... NO lab tests... Shady dealer types in chat rooms, peddling dirty bags of brownish powder marked w/ sharpie letters (and containing a bit O' Salmonella maybe ?) ~ better ? Or worse ??

So I agree with AKA - also AHPA (American Herbal Products Assn) - Professional is better. Testing & labels = better quality kratom in 2023. Sure there's exceptions to everything. We've come a long ways ~ Five years ago, the Legal status was questionable, and vendors didn't want to invest in a business that could get shut down. NOW ~ Kratom is absolutely LEGAL and here to stay, and it's only getting better from here!!

these things are good in the abstract, but i'd rather buy my kratom from small, private vendors, who consistently have great stuff that i trust, despite the absence of some of these things. So - sure - would i prefer that vendor X had all of these things - sure. but if they can't afford it/don't have the time, i'm going to choose their kratom over other more 'professional' vendors, time and time again.

[Jfish030]

The best effects typically dont come from pure mit. You want the other akaloids which some are known muscle relaxers. The combination is what typically gives users the best effects and leads to them saying i really like this one. Same for almost every other chemical. The drink with the most sugar isnt the key to making a good drink, even though everyone loves sugar.

[BallzDeep9]

these things are good in the abstract, but i'd rather buy my kratom from small, private vendors, who consistently have great stuff that i trust, despite the absence of some of these things. So - sure - would i prefer that vendor X had all of these things - sure. but if they can't afford it/don't have the time, i'm going to choose their kratom over other more 'professional' vendors, time and time again.

In most cases the "Professional" vendors who've invested in website, Labs, packaging, equipment, etc. are ALSO small Mom & Pop small family business - They just have "Skin in the Game" and decided to Do it right, within a small budget - And the $ investment, says they have "More to Lose" and more likely to stick around - In event of any problems Legal or otherwise...

But there is definately a "Community" thing with Kratom, and Chat Rooms, and people want some hand-holding and "Reviews" and such... IF that's your thing then sure, Mewe and Discord are Chat rooms for that... there IS value in Social Media ... of course there is NO proof, that any so-called "Private" vendors' Leaf is any better than anyone else's Leaf - where "better" means stronger, in terms of Alkaloids ? with NO Labs of any kind, and no objective standards or anything ? Stronger alkaloids may NOW be achieved in several ways!! again the Professional vendors at least have a Variety selection of products, with Full Spectrum extracts available.

Nobody's buying 2000 fake "Plain strains" to compare vendors to see who's are "better" than others ... Either you want the Chat Room thing (and Buy from, and Support those vendors) OR< you focus on the product, the variety, and extra's features. I see what JFish is saying - it's MORE than just MIT% - but most extracts are "Full Spectrum" anyway ? Everyone should experiment to see, what works best for them.

[Nelson Baboon]

these things are good in the abstract, but i'd rather buy my kratom from small, private vendors, who consistently have great stuff that i trust, despite the absence of some of these things. So - sure - would i prefer that vendor X had all of these things - sure. but if they can't afford it/don't have the time, i'm going to choose their kratom over other more 'professional' vendors, time and time again.

In most cases the "Professional" vendors who've invested in website, Labs, packaging, equipment, etc. are ALSO small Mom & Pop small family business - They just have "Skin in the Game" and decided to Do it right, within a small budget - And the $ investment, says they have "More to Lose" and more likely to stick around - In event of any problems Legal or otherwise...

But there is definately a "Community" thing with Kratom, and Chat Rooms, and people want some hand-holding and "Reviews" and such... IF that's your thing then sure, Mewe and Discord are Chat rooms for that... there IS value in Social Media ... of course there is NO proof, that any so-called "Private" vendors' Leaf is any better than anyone else's Leaf - where "better" means stronger, in terms of Alkaloids ? with NO Labs of any kind, and no objective standards or anything ? Stronger alkaloids may NOW be achieved in several ways!! again the Professional vendors at least have a Variety selection of products, with Full Spectrum extracts available.

Nobody's buying 2000 fake "Plain strains" to compare vendors to see who's are "better" than others ... Either you want the Chat Room thing (and Buy from, and Support those vendors) OR< you focus on the product, the variety, and extra's features. I see what JFish is saying - it's MORE than just MIT% - but most extracts are "Full Spectrum" anyway ? Everyone should experiment to see, what works best for them.

you have this patronizing and condescending attitude towards people who like kratom from some of the private, mewe vendors. And there is the implication that we should defer to your reasoning over our own experience. I've read posts by you touting the kratom from TFH and from Soul. I don't think that there is "proof" that their kratom is better either, since whether a strain is good or not is largely subjective. I don't want to start dragging in examples, but there are some private mewe vendors that have quite a great reputation here, and you are implying that people should stop buying from them? I'm not really sure what you are implying. I have also had kratom from vendors that are on your list that i didn't think was particularly good. I think also that manipulating alkaloids through the use of extracts so that the result will be exactly the same as a particular strain that i'm enjoying? I think that this would be rather difficult, and i think that there are some people who don't want to get into relying on extracts. I think that you have quite a bias against mewe vendors, except for the ones you like.

[Valikth]

In the absence of thorough long term studies of this plant, let's agree that we're all shooting from the hip when we propose things about this mysterious leaf.
And this been said before and better (Ballz comes to mind here.) It's not just the mit percentage that makes for a great kratom burn. It's the full complement of alkaloids doing their mysterious synergy dance that gives you the mitrogynia speciosa experience.

Oh I agree with you and of course Ballz so much on this one. I've been using Kratom for nearly 8 years and there are some that I have that are strong, but I don't get that happy feeling. That's why I almost always use Texas Family Harvest because Chris does something with the way he mixes or picks his strains so that they give you a happy feeling. I have some other vendors that I like okay but there is something about TFH that just feel good so I know it's not all about the mit percentage.

I recently got to try about 8 strains of tfh that my buddy said was top tier and they are now my fav. Brand. I had some other private vendors too but there is something really special n about tfh in my opinion. Not placebo either because i had not read about them in any kind of detail... Or any other private vendors ...because i wasnt a member ... there was no point. Until i got the product ...And tried it. and found , how much i enjoyed it. Then i started researching it to see if it was all in my mind.

[Transformato]

In the absence of thorough long term studies of this plant, let's agree that we're all shooting from the hip when we propose things about this mysterious leaf.
And this been said before and better (Ballz comes to mind here.) It's not just the mit percentage that makes for a great kratom burn. It's the full complement of alkaloids doing their mysterious synergy dance that gives you the mitrogynia speciosa experience.

Oh I agree with you and of course Ballz so much on this one. I've been using Kratom for nearly 8 years and there are some that I have that are strong, but I don't get that happy feeling. That's why I almost always use Texas Family Harvest because Chris does something with the way he mixes or picks his strains so that they give you a happy feeling. I have some other vendors that I like okay but there is something about TFH that just feel good so I know it's not all about the mit percentage.

You can make your own. You can use what you get to make things that are better than anything you can buy. Just test possibilities and keep a journal with detailed notes about your condition and other factors - you'll learn much, much faster this way. I know you can't stop to do that every time but you can sometimes. Out of about 175 varieties on hand, only two or three go unused for more than a season but I do make rather complex blends - a system developed that works reliably and lets me steer contrasts and hit multiple targets but it doesn't have to be that complicated or time consuming. You can prolly use it all and come out ahead for it. .

[Madvillain626]

i've found the strains with =>2% mit tend to hit mid for me, very great body feels and warm fuzzies. The faster upper-mid strains seem to hit in that 1.6-1.9% mit range. If the strain is <1.6% mit, i don't want it.

[Kelleytoons]

You can make your own. You can use what you get to make things that are better than anything you can buy.

Ah, I KNEW my inspiration came from someone here - I started a separate topic about this but wanted you to get credit AND to thank you for getting me started on this (again? I did it once sort of but that's a whole other story).

So far I'm 4 for 4 - meaning out of the four tries I made blending good batches I ended up with GREAT doses. Not gonna journal, however - no real need to repeat anything, at least when each attempt is this good anyway.

[Transformato]

You can make your own. You can use what you get to make things that are better than anything you can buy.

Ah, I KNEW my inspiration came from someone here - I started a separate topic about this but wanted you to get credit AND to thank you for getting me started on this (again? I did it once sort of but that's a whole other story).

So far I'm 4 for 4 - meaning out of the four tries I made blending good batches I ended up with GREAT doses. Not gonna journal, however - no real need to repeat anything, at least when each attempt is this good anyway.

That's beautiful.
No need to complicate more than needed to be effective. I'm up to a few things with the journal bit that are difficult like changing a life & similar. Glad this is benefiting you.

[Jfish030]

i've found the strains with =>2% mit tend to hit mid for me, very great body feels and warm fuzzies. The faster upper-mid strains seem to hit in that 1.6-1.9% mit range. If the strain is <1.6% mit, i don't want it.

Whom are you buying kratom at 2.0%? Even 1.9% is very rare.

[Nelson Baboon]

i've found the strains with =>2% mit tend to hit mid for me, very great body feels and warm fuzzies. The faster upper-mid strains seem to hit in that 1.6-1.9% mit range. If the strain is <1.6% mit, i don't want it.

Whom are you buying kratom at 2.0%? Even 1.9% is very rare.

i believe that Denette has had strains over 2% recently - as high as 2.2% as i recall. they were quite strong, so i believe. I've seen some vendors list % over 2% on their sites...Benni's shows their green horn at 2.19% (haven't had it).

i'm not an expert in all of this - Benni's also says "Mitra% includes Paynantheine of .3-.4".

not sure whether you assume that this is included or not. But don't most vendors who post this info, include it?

[Madvillain626]

i've found the strains with =>2% mit tend to hit mid for me, very great body feels and warm fuzzies. The faster upper-mid strains seem to hit in that 1.6-1.9% mit range. If the strain is <1.6% mit, i don't want it.

Whom are you buying kratom at 2.0%? Even 1.9% is very rare.

denette and down to earth botanicals. upcoming 20 yr pure white maeng da (DTE) is supposed to be 1.9 mit.

[Jfish030]

i've found the strains with =>2% mit tend to hit mid for me, very great body feels and warm fuzzies. The faster upper-mid strains seem to hit in that 1.6-1.9% mit range. If the strain is <1.6% mit, i don't want it.

Whom are you buying kratom at 2.0%? Even 1.9% is very rare.

denette and down to earth botanicals. upcoming 20 yr pure white maeng da (DTE) is supposed to be 1.9 mit.

I could only find labs on down to earths website which were all in that 1.3-1.5% range, he had one at 1.8% with murray brown labs where if u dont pay for the additional testing they include a 5-20% buffer to the mit % (aknowledged on the bottom of the last page) because they dont pull out the other alkaloids they just include them, which puts it probably around a true 1.6%. If hes marketing a 1.8% or a 1.9% with the additional alkaloids included that is misleading customers. A year ago that would of been fine marketing because no one really knew better. If a business has a true 1.9% or 2.0% that would be damn good announcement for a business. A real lab tested strain at 1.9-2.0% is Extremely rare probably 1/2000. Basically no one in the industry is selling anything like, nor consistently.

How much do you use? Normally people use the same amounts every time regardless of different strain/batches and dont try any variance on amounts used.

[brassy]

Very belated thank you to everybody who shared their experiences here. I really love this forum but I usually only allow myself ten minutes each visit because I have severe ADHD/screentime issues that spiral out of control otherwise.
I recently ordered from Benni who always posts lab tests and I did find that in general the strains with the higher percentage of mitragynine on the label did seem to hit a bit harder. I will definitely order from them again (they are super nice people, with great service and prices).
I haven't reviewed each strain because I am not sure how useful my experience is to others. I seldom experience the overt mood-lifting you guys talk about (the best I usually get is anxiety and overt depression is absent).
Plus, I prefer whites for the stimulant effect and have yet to try one with a super-high mit content (they were all sold out).
I wish I could explore private vendors -- it's not like I wouldn't love to jump on the euphoria bus, if that's possible -- but you kind of have to become a kratom hobbyist to get on the private lists, monitoring when various sellers have public events, doing the mewe thing (I'm only just getting the hang of Discord!)
Anyhow, I really appreciate everything I have managed to learn from you guys, even if I don't always have the bandwidth to apply it! Hope you are all well and happy!