Safe Arguement

[Kckruse]

I'm just curious what everyone else here does in this situation. When someone you know that knows you take kratom starts bringing up the news story they saw on kratom about how dangerous it is, what do you say? I guess there's been deaths in Florida and Oregon traced back to kratom. The coroner actually listed kratom as the cause of death. There's also seizures in the news linked to kratom. How does everyone else go about defending their use?

[Lokey]

I tell them those people usually have either other substances in their system, maybe even something not tested for, or probably abused extracts as so many do, or had unknown or known pre-existing medical conditions. Much different than the way I take powder, and monitor my health. I tell them how many news and medical articles are misinformation and disinformation and to watch the documentary A Leaf of Faith (?) and go to American Kratom Association.

[Kckruse]

So it's the extracts at like head shops and gas stations?

I tell them those people usually have either other substances in their system, maybe even something not tested for, or probably abused extracts as so many do, or had unknown or known pre-existing medical conditions. Much different than the way I take powder, and monitor my health. I tell them how many news and medical articles are misinformation and disinformation and to watch the documentary A Leaf of Faith (?) and go to American Kratom Association.

[Lokey]

In a lot of the cases where it's caused problems, I've heard there are some who buy the liquid extract drinks and have heavy and expensive habits but some I'm sure get stuff online and go overboard on conumptuon. I find it hard to believe someone who sticks with powder and very minimal extract usage and is basically healthy and doesn't mix it with other medications or substances would have an issue with it. I'm not sure it's been proven kratom has any relation to seizures either.

[Kelleytoons]

The facts we know about the Florida death were the individual in question had ALL kinds of substances in his system, not just kratom (and most of those were VERY dangerous ones). The reason it boiled down to kratom was the mother who was furious about a shop that sold kratom drinks, where her son used to frequent. Perhaps he got other drugs there, but to my mind I doubt whether kratom played any sort of role whatsoever. But you know how mothers are - she kept at it, convinced of her righteousness, until the Florida county actually banned the substance (the only place in Florida where it's illegal).

I don't know anything about the other death but I would guess it's much the same thing. Because kratom is never responsible for deaths, and because it gets so little press otherwise, when it does come up in ANY sort of conversation folks are mostly just completely ignorant about it. And thus will believe anything.

I don't bother with arguing with those people - to them it's like religion, and I've never found it worthwhile to argue with anyone's religion (note that they would say the same thing about my love for kratom - but then they should keep THEIR mouths shut, as well).

[Sityice]

tbh I'm not sure if I know anyone who believes anything the news says anymore

I had one friend mention that he saw a news story about someone in Florida dying from Kratom and all I had to basically say was "I'm sure she died from something else and happened to have Kratom in her system" and the conversation immediately ended with him agreeing lol

[boureka]

As an analogy, point out the vast difference between coca leaf and cocaine. Poppy plant and heroin. And how while kratom leaf, like coffee or sugar, is something you can have too much of, it's not going to put you in harm's way.

[Adrumaddict]

I believe Florida claims that there have been 46 deaths that have been attributed to Kratom alone. First off I’m highly suspicious of that number, but let’s give them that, 46 accidental deaths and over the past few years or so. Each year there are 100,000 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths from NSAID-related complications, these are FDA approved OTC medications yet no articles warning people of those dangers. 46 to 16,000, and that 46 was accumulated over multiple years!! It’s beyond absurd. You can also make the case with alcohol, but I prefer not to because Kratom at least helps people where alcohol helps nothing. And by the way, there are many other OTC items that are FDA approved that cause a hell of a lot more deaths than 46.

[Kckruse]

How many drumming deaths?

I believe Florida claims that there have been 46 deaths that have been attributed to Kratom alone. First off I’m highly suspicious of that number, but let’s give them that, 46 accidental deaths and over the past few years or so. Each year there are 100,00 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths from NSAID-related complications, these are FDA approved OTC medications yet no articles warning people of those dangers. 46 to 16,000, and that 46 was accumulated over multiple years!! It’s beyond absurd. You can also make the case with alcohol, but I prefer not to because Kratom at least helps people where alcohol helps nothing. And by the way, there are many other OTC items that are FDA approved that cause a hell of a lot more deaths than 46.

[mivanqua]

How many drumming deaths?

I believe Florida claims that there have been 46 deaths that have been attributed to Kratom alone. First off I’m highly suspicious of that number, but let’s give them that, 46 accidental deaths and over the past few years or so. Each year there are 100,00 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths from NSAID-related complications, these are FDA approved OTC medications yet no articles warning people of those dangers. 46 to 16,000, and that 46 was accumulated over multiple years!! It’s beyond absurd. You can also make the case with alcohol, but I prefer not to because Kratom at least helps people where alcohol helps nothing. And by the way, there are many other OTC items that are FDA approved that cause a hell of a lot more deaths than 46.

This is completely true. I am reminded of the poor person that was the recipient of both a shotgun blast to the chest and also a death by kratom. I'm trying to not be so stressed out so I won't go into my deep and vast hatred and contempt for the "powers that be."

As far as your question, since I started kratom, I quit everything that isn't a plant, quit soda and replaced it with twelve cups of water a day, quit cigarettes, held a job consistently for most of a decade. I did get fired from my last job after five years, but no reason was given, and a mere two weeks later I got the job I'm at now which I would literally have to kill my boss to get fired from and I LOVE my coworkers (but i loved the last ones too.)

Point is, kratom actually makes me give a shit about myself in almost every way. If people don't like that I basically eat matcha tea but slightly different, fuck them. I tried it their way and ended up a cigarette smoking junkie who had horrible nutrition and it wasn't working for me.

[Kckruse]

That's great to hear. I'm glad you're doing well. I recently let my supply go to nothing so I had a few days of no kratom and let me tell you, my anxiety went through the roof. I felt sluggish and didn't want to do anything. My sleep was horrible. The hour after I took kratom again, I felt like superman. There are so many positives about kratom that help people that it makes complete sense that the powers that be want to get rid of it. They want you chained to the costly medications and keeping the pharm companies in business. Much like marijuana for the past half century, kratom is the white wolf of the forest hunted for no good.

How many drumming deaths?

I believe Florida claims that there have been 46 deaths that have been attributed to Kratom alone. First off I’m highly suspicious of that number, but let’s give them that, 46 accidental deaths and over the past few years or so. Each year there are 100,00 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths from NSAID-related complications, these are FDA approved OTC medications yet no articles warning people of those dangers. 46 to 16,000, and that 46 was accumulated over multiple years!! It’s beyond absurd. You can also make the case with alcohol, but I prefer not to because Kratom at least helps people where alcohol helps nothing. And by the way, there are many other OTC items that are FDA approved that cause a hell of a lot more deaths than 46.

This is completely true. I am reminded of the poor person that was the recipient of both a shotgun blast to the chest and also a death by kratom. I'm trying to not be so stressed out so I won't go into my deep and vast hatred and contempt for the "powers that be."

As far as your question, since I started kratom, I quit everything that isn't a plant, quit soda and replaced it with twelve cups of water a day, quit cigarettes, held a job consistently for most of a decade. I did get fired from my last job after five years, but no reason was given, and a mere two weeks later I got the job I'm at now which I would literally have to kill my boss to get fired from and I LOVE my coworkers (but i loved the last ones too.)

Point is, kratom actually makes me give a shit about myself in almost every way. If people don't like that I basically eat matcha tea but slightly different, fuck them. I tried it their way and ended up a cigarette smoking junkie who had horrible nutrition and it wasn't working for me.

[BallzDeep9]

tbh I'm not sure if I know anyone who believes anything the news says anymore ...

Yep. Dis-information on the Internet - and people who can't figure out where to get their "News" or... Who to believe ??

I mean it's become a Search For Truth - when anyone can publish anything - there's News, and "News" and Fake News aka Faux news lol... And you have idiots who promote the fake, opinion stuff because of politics etc... We need real News reporting - Check out Associated Press (for Example) they DO have factual reports of kratom related News stories. Here's one from 1 year ago. Reporting the Facts. https://apnews.com/article/health-busin ... 547a4a1664

Now.... I gotta say, I'm kind of disappointed there's not more discussion here on Double MM ? But... I get it... MM is mainly about "Buying from Vendors" (and mainly the Mewe vendors,) - But - This is really important. You want Kratom to remain Legal ? and keep it available, maybe even more available ? Not less ? ~ IMO there is NO reason that Kratom should be "regulated" any more than... ?? It's a unique product... It's probably LESS harmful than Coffee - yes. Mitragynine in high doses, is less harmful than Caffeine in high doses!

Here's the Sun Sentinel newspaper... Fort Lauderdale, FL (-I lived there 30+ years ago~!) Kratom needs far tighter Regulation | Editorial

[Kckruse]

I don't know why but the Tampa Bay Times seems to lead the way for negative kratom news. One of their Pulitzer prize winning editors put out a big kratom piece a while back.

tbh I'm not sure if I know anyone who believes anything the news says anymore ...

Yep. Dis-information on the Internet - and people who can't figure out where to get their "News" or... Who to believe ??

I mean it's become a Search For Truth - when anyone can publish anything - there's News, and "News" and Fake News aka Faux news lol... And you have idiots who promote the fake, opinion stuff because of politics etc... We need real News reporting - Check out Associated Press (for Example) they DO have factual reports of kratom related News stories. Here's one from 1 year ago. Reporting the Facts. https://apnews.com/article/health-busin ... 547a4a1664

Now.... I gotta say, I'm kind of disappointed there's not more discussion here on Double MM ? But... I get it... MM is mainly about "Buying from Vendors" (and mainly the Mewe vendors,) - But - This is really important. You want Kratom to remain Legal ? and keep it available, maybe even more available ? Not less ? ~ IMO there is NO reason that Kratom should be "regulated" any more than... ?? It's a unique product... It's probably LESS harmful than Coffee - yes. Mitragynine in high doses, is less harmful than Caffeine in high doses!

Here's the Sun Sentinel newspaper... Fort Lauderdale, FL (-I lived there 30+ years ago~!) Kratom needs far tighter Regulation | Editorial

[Adrumaddict]

How many drumming deaths?

I believe Florida claims that there have been 46 deaths that have been attributed to Kratom alone. First off I’m highly suspicious of that number, but let’s give them that, 46 accidental deaths and over the past few years or so. Each year there are 100,00 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths from NSAID-related complications, these are FDA approved OTC medications yet no articles warning people of those dangers. 46 to 16,000, and that 46 was accumulated over multiple years!! It’s beyond absurd. You can also make the case with alcohol, but I prefer not to because Kratom at least helps people where alcohol helps nothing. And by the way, there are many other OTC items that are FDA approved that cause a hell of a lot more deaths than 46.

LoL, well Spinal Tap has the only drummer casualties that I’m aware of.

[Kelleytoons]

LoL, well Spinal Tap has the only drummer casualties that I’m aware of.

But so, SO many.

[CatfatherB]

How many drumming deaths?

I believe Florida claims that there have been 46 deaths that have been attributed to Kratom alone. First off I’m highly suspicious of that number, but let’s give them that, 46 accidental deaths and over the past few years or so. Each year there are 100,00 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths from NSAID-related complications, these are FDA approved OTC medications yet no articles warning people of those dangers. 46 to 16,000, and that 46 was accumulated over multiple years!! It’s beyond absurd. You can also make the case with alcohol, but I prefer not to because Kratom at least helps people where alcohol helps nothing. And by the way, there are many other OTC items that are FDA approved that cause a hell of a lot more deaths than 46.

LoL, well Spinal Tap has the only drummer casualties that I’m aware of.

Was it ever proven if Stumpy Joe choked on someone else's vomit?

[IndelibleDotInk]

I tell them those people usually have either other substances in their system, maybe even something not tested for, or probably abused extracts as so many do, or had unknown or known pre-existing medical conditions. Much different than the way I take powder, and monitor my health. I tell them how many news and medical articles are misinformation and disinformation and to watch the documentary A Leaf of Faith (?) and go to American Kratom Association.

that's on the money.

[Transformato]

I'm just curious what everyone else here does in this situation. When someone you know that knows you take kratom starts bringing up the news story they saw on kratom about how dangerous it is, what do you say? I guess there's been deaths in Florida and Oregon traced back to kratom. The coroner actually listed kratom as the cause of death. There's also seizures in the news linked to kratom. How does everyone else go about defending their use?

Well I had a ton ofinfo and links for you but this damned site dumped my post yet again so fuk it.
Got to the AKA website - pay no mind to influencers and opinions - they have what you need. Get it. It's in the science and something... just go get it.

[Transformato]

tbh I'm not sure if I know anyone who believes anything the news says anymore ...

Yep. Dis-information on the Internet - and people who can't figure out where to get their "News" or... Who to believe ??

I mean it's become a Search For Truth - when anyone can publish anything - there's News, and "News" and Fake News aka Faux news lol... And you have idiots who promote the fake, opinion stuff because of politics etc... We need real News reporting - Check out Associated Press (for Example) they DO have factual reports of kratom related News stories. Here's one from 1 year ago. Reporting the Facts. https://apnews.com/article/health-busin ... 547a4a1664

Now.... I gotta say, I'm kind of disappointed there's not more discussion here on Double MM ? But... I get it... MM is mainly about "Buying from Vendors" (and mainly the Mewe vendors,) - But - This is really important. You want Kratom to remain Legal ? and keep it available, maybe even more available ? Not less ? ~ IMO there is NO reason that Kratom should be "regulated" any more than... ?? It's a unique product... It's probably LESS harmful than Coffee - yes. Mitragynine in high doses, is less harmful than Caffeine in high doses!

Here's the Sun Sentinel newspaper... Fort Lauderdale, FL (-I lived there 30+ years ago~!) Kratom needs far tighter Regulation | Editorial

Well there have been some that brought up kratom legality progress etc. and been shot down by people saying "nobody here cares about that " and similar. So it's no wonder. Active advocates have been abused here imo.

[BallzDeep9]

Well there have been some that brought up - Kratom legality progress etc. and been shot down by people saying "nobody here cares about that " and similar. So it's no wonder. Active advocates have been abused here imo.

Thanks for Reply. yes sadly... At this point it seems many believe the old "Ban" fear mongering has come and gone... AKA used to do that like 2X per year... NOW it's more a fight with private attorneys attacking vendors. Backed up by Fake News reports...