How NOT to use kratom.

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 am

Due to my obsession at finding the best kratom in the world. I have forced myself to take too many doses. I need to know a strain fast and act fast to capitalize on limited harvests. The last 45 days I have tested 25 new sources. I am here to share some of my idiotic methods of finding great stuff. I HIGHLY ADVISE YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THIS As advice. But for me personally, I can really navigate fast through testers. I cant afford to miss a strain due to full stomach or low dose. I feel completely obsessed in finding new sources. I currently have tried over 830 harvests from hundreds of sources. I'm talking 5g-15g 4+ times a day for 3 years...I unfortunately/fortunately test product all the time... I usually can never use the same product more than 5 times bc I have so many test products coming in...and I usually get in the HORRIBLE habit of trying to see what a product will do fast...exponentially increasing the amount every day... i can better judge a product when increasing dosage exponentially. Its a horrible habit. I usually have 20-30 products to test ... so I start with a break...maybe a day off cold turkey then I take only 2-3g a couple times a day for 3-4 days then I begin my testing to find great products..i start at 6g one day the next day I go 6.5g the next 7g the next day 7.5 and so on until I get to 12.... when I'm at 12 I then start at 10g in Am, then 10.75., 11.50 and last dose at 12g... I do that for a couple days until I feel I need to reset again.

This is an absolute idiotic thing to do... but I figured I'd share my methods of madness. I do rely on my other testers BUT for some reason I trust myself more than others.

I definitely try to nail it though. I can say with confidence that my menu would go toe to toe with any in the world. I spend 20 hours a week sourcing... I even follow Indonesian hourly weather... yep hourly... lol... I want to order the exact time of harvest.

I only harvest on the third day of mostly sunny weather. The leafs must be picked in the morning at sunrise and I refuse product if the leaf was heavily rained on at all in the previous 8 hours leading to the picking if the leaves. I MUST know some experience is picking leaves also. You can get many all percentages off one tree just by a picker grouping the leaves....

There is many methods to my madness..

...I would love to trade (results non public) with a heckuva sourcing wizard. If anyone knows someone just tell them to hit me up! Its trade time!! I know I said no results public but if someone tries to okie dokie me with garbage product for my boss status stuff I will air them out lol. That would be a screwed up way to offload bum powder. Lol. Please dont do that. Baha.

I'd also love to hear other methods of testing product... any other tips and tricks other than my horrible exponentially dumb dose plan.

Good night!

Post by **CatfatherB** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:46 am

talk about a hard day at the office!?! I have so many questions I don't even know where to start!

do you take anything at night to keep the ol' receptors fresh for the next day like cats claw, magnesium or circumin? What would you say the percentages are from just average kratom to "FIRE" batches that you test?

Post by **brave777** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:23 am

I love guys like this who love to test, can't wait to hear the results of it all. At least you take a day off, to start again, it does help, i just went over 27 hour break, i got mad because i had no runny nose or any wd, more like after glow feel, why after glows last so long its beyond me. But i did use black seed oil balls talked about before and Rhodealo rosea extract pill with heavy tea drinking, peppermint with nettle leaf, drank half gallon of it and it ran trough me so fast i had to run pee twice in less then 2 hours, maybe that helped i dont know. Went with the white vietnam from TFH with just 4 gram with food. Its fast alright, 1 hour in. my regular dose is 6 grams usually but trying to drop it on my Christmas break since i got no work. If you could recommend the highest quality you think you have or make a sample bundle i will go for it. Kinda like fused, loved all of his samples. Re-leaf you sell right?

Ok i saw the link in signature.... I read everything in "read this now" Very knowledgeable informationa nd some i didnt know. like

Code: Select all

At Re-leaf LLC we often ask for the less fermented products, so most of our products (not all) are green in color. Fermentation increases the chance of salmonella and e-coli tenfold so we are not fans of reddish colored product.

So best to avoid red color? i sure dont want to get sick, but i also think leaving leaf in sun to long can do that because i did with ziplock and spread kratom evenly, from green it goes red. Maybe if better dry are practiced then red is good? because i heard leaving in sun it makes kratom stronger by turning into 7ohm or something different alkaloid profile. any more thought on this? Anyone actually here on double M tried them yet? Very very curious!

Any way i think if gumby and Re leaf get together, they can be a power house of info, both can learn a lot from each other. I enjoyed reading "read this now!" section. This hard work is what makes me want to spend the extra dolor. I bet people that just want tall old tree's like re leaf state, they have hunters up there for it, they also look at weather and dry technique before they buy from suppliers, thats some powerful info. i am sure anyone who want to try top notch will go for it. what is everyone ideas? Has anyone bought from Re-Leaf LLC?? I am very curious and want any reviews.. How does it compare from other vendors? anyone?

Post by **Gopherdude** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:15 pm

I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?

Post by **gumbyke1** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:27 pm

What's up Joe! I hope you been well man! Good to see you, we got to catch up sometime!

Post by **gumbyke1** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?

Yeah, Joe is a vendor from the I Love Kratom Forum. Nice guy!

Post by **brave777** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:33 pm

Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?

Yes, seems like it. kratom expensive too but how much better is it then most current kratom vendors? i dont know. 250 grams 97$ and plus shipping. Just so you know. People dont have to buy it if to expensive. But just getting info in general from "read this now" on his site you can learn some new things. Good for education. Even if kratom is 1,000 bucks for 250 gram, its his sourcing and he decided to sell, no one has too buy. I personally dont think its much of that better then most popular vendors here but who knows, right? he did find this forum. Most leaf on site says its from 1.5 and 2.0 mitra %. I just wonder what you guys think about "read me now" section? Like he only try to get green color, not fermented in any way but i do have bunch red color veins and some of them fire. Wonder if i am consuming fire red salmonella?

Post by **Cgroom14** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:02 pm

Joe is the owner of Re-leaf LLC. I have been getting Kratom from them exclusively for over 2-3 years now. Hands down, he finds the BEST kratom in the Asian South Pacific . They go the extra mile to find the old mother trees that you dream of getting leaf from! Very insightful information in regards to how Re-leaf selects its Kratom to sale. Thanks for bridging the gap and giving us the opportunity to try these deep jungle phenotypes.

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:28 pm

brave777 wrote:
Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?
Yes, seems like it. kratom expensive too but how much better is it then most current kratom vendors? i dont know. 250 grams 97$ and plus shipping. Just so you know. People dont have to buy it if to expensive. But just getting info in general from "read this now" on his site you can learn some new things. Good for education. Even if kratom is 1,000 bucks for 250 gram, its his sourcing and he decided to sell, no one has too buy. I personally dont think its much of that better then most popular vendors here but who knows, right? he did find this forum. Most leaf on site says its from 1.5 and 2.0 mitra %. I just wonder what you guys think about "read me now" section? Like he only try to get green color, not fermented in any way but i do have bunch red color veins and some of them fire. Wonder if i am consuming fire red salmonella?

We have SOME red colored stuff but you have to reallllly know the peolpe that make it. You can color it red in the sun but most people put it in a bag for a couple days... that is where the salmonella can happen. I doubt your red has salmonella because that is not likely...it can happen but rarely does now... Social media has stamped out most of the HORRIBLE people.... Pictures easily spred and prevent a lot of bad practices.

As for our kratom. You have to fully understand our system to get a TRUE PRICE.

We have automatic discounts that apply to your cart. So $280kilo changes to $182 in your cart. THEN on top of that we have MANY discount codes... So at an average of 15% you would take an ADDITIONAL 15% off which makes it 155$ THEN you earn BACK 10% of your purchase which makes the kilo only $140.... The bad part of my model is not understanding it... but the god part is how it is constructed...

Did you know that ALL of our customers get an affiliate code? Each customer gets there own personal affiliate code and they get 30% of the sale!!! So if a first time buyer uses your personal discount code and they spend $300 with us then we put $90 in points in your account... So the next time you buy a $182 kilo you get that $90 taken off. Some of our customers spend on average about $110 per kilo....

Every single sale has discounts of up to 75% off.

OPur prices are a lot closer to industry average than not. People just assume our business model is like someone elses and they dont read or ask about use...

I mean check this out...

Everyones discount code gets firsttime buyers %10 off ADDITIONALLY on top of the 35% (kilo)!! Then That FIRST TIME BUY ALSO GETS 10% BACK IN POINTS!!!

Even if you buy a kilo withou ANY additional discount code you automatically get 45% off... 35% off and earn the 10% back....

Then get on our email list where we have CRAZY sales!!

You can pick up kilos at $100 or so when you pay attention to our emails and our info!!!

As a business owner that treats the business like a baby Im sure you can understand why IT STINKS to have people assume our pricing is expensive without understanding our logistics!!!

We cannot populate our store with EVERY sized item ... so because we have the ability to buy ANY size basically we have only 50g increments... The savings is huge when taking advantage of everything...

I can help but stress that WE GIVE 30% OF YOUR REFERRAL SALE BACK TO YOUR ACCOUNT!!!

We pay HUGEEEEEEE and actually Im pretty sure CGroom14 hase mad A HUGE referaal once... he made like $170 ( i believe he can correct me) IN ONE FREAKING SALE ... all by just giving away his silly little code!!!

So, no we arent that expensive... we actually PAY YOU!!

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:30 pm

brave777 wrote:
Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?
Yes, seems like it. kratom expensive too but how much better is it then most current kratom vendors? i dont know. 250 grams 97$ and plus shipping. Just so you know. People dont have to buy it if to expensive. But just getting info in general from "read this now" on his site you can learn some new things. Good for education. Even if kratom is 1,000 bucks for 250 gram, its his sourcing and he decided to sell, no one has too buy. I personally dont think its much of that better then most popular vendors here but who knows, right? he did find this forum. Most leaf on site says its from 1.5 and 2.0 mitra %. I just wonder what you guys think about "read me now" section? Like he only try to get green color, not fermented in any way but i do have bunch red color veins and some of them fire. Wonder if i am consuming fire red salmonella?

But Brave SERIOUSLY thank you for your compliments on the info... I LOVEEEE people like you that actually READ stuff!!! Maybe you will jump on Team Re-leaf LLC one day

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:35 pm

brave777 wrote:I love guys like this who love to test, can't wait to hear the results of it all. At least you take a day off, to start again, it does help, i just went over 27 hour break, i got mad because i had no runny nose or any wd, more like after glow feel, why after glows last so long its beyond me. But i did use black seed oil balls talked about before and Rhodealo rosea extract pill with heavy tea drinking, peppermint with nettle leaf, drank half gallon of it and it ran trough me so fast i had to run pee twice in less then 2 hours, maybe that helped i dont know. Went with the white vietnam from TFH with just 4 gram with food. Its fast alright, 1 hour in. my regular dose is 6 grams usually but trying to drop it on my Christmas break since i got no work. If you could recommend the highest quality you think you have or make a sample bundle i will go for it. Kinda like fused, loved all of his samples. Re-leaf you sell right?

Ok i saw the link in signature.... I read everything in "read this now" Very knowledgeable informationa nd some i didnt know. like
Code: Select all
At Re-leaf LLC we often ask for the less fermented products, so most of our products (not all) are green in color. Fermentation increases the chance of salmonella and e-coli tenfold so we are not fans of reddish colored product. 
So best to avoid red color? i sure dont want to get sick, but i also think leaving leaf in sun to long can do that because i did with ziplock and spread kratom evenly, from green it goes red. Maybe if better dry are practiced then red is good? because i heard leaving in sun it makes kratom stronger by turning into 7ohm or something different alkaloid profile. any more thought on this? Anyone actually here on double M tried them yet? Very very curious!

Any way i think if gumby and Re leaf get together, they can be a power house of info, both can learn a lot from each other. I enjoyed reading "read this now!" section. This hard work is what makes me want to spend the extra dolor. I bet people that just want tall old tree's like re leaf state, they have hunters up there for it, they also look at weather and dry technique before they buy from suppliers, thats some powerful info. i am sure anyone who want to try top notch will go for it. what is everyone ideas? Has anyone bought from Re-Leaf LLC?? I am very curious and want any reviews.. How does it compare from other vendors? anyone?

As for my results... i will say that I usually do get quite the good results when testing... we all hate the time we take kratom and then it just never happens lol... those darn times where you actually get a little upset because it just fell flat on its face and you have to wait 4-5 hours to try some more product.... If that happens I usually get upset at who sent it to me. baha....

But a little more on the red.... I get the science about the alkaloids changing but, I'm just not totally sold on it. I do have some really good cream colored stuff right now but t hat wasnt fermented it was just colored by the sun. That stuff even tastes good. I might make some kratom crackers and give some out on here or something lol...well maybe im getting a little a head of myself.

I love forums like thsi.... you kratom-heads are awesome and love to vibe with my own kind

Post by **MikeEdoessomething** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:45 pm

Re-leaf LLC wrote:
brave777 wrote:
Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?

We have SOME red colored stuff but you have to reallllly know the peolpe that make it. You can color it red in the sun but most people put it in a bag for a couple days... that is where the salmonella can happen. I doubt your red has salmonella because that is not likely...it can happen but rarely does now... Social media has stamped out most of the HORRIBLE people.... Pictures easily spred and prevent a lot of bad practices.

As for our kratom. You have to fully understand our system to get a TRUE PRICE.

We have automatic discounts that apply to your cart. So $280kilo changes to $182 in your cart. THEN on top of that we have MANY discount codes... So at an average of 15% you would take an ADDITIONAL 15% off which makes it 155$ THEN you earn BACK 10% of your purchase which makes the kilo only $140.... The bad part of my model is not understanding it... but the god part is how it is constructed...

Did you know that ALL of our customers get an affiliate code? Each customer gets there own personal affiliate code and they get 30% of the sale!!! So if a first time buyer uses your personal discount code and they spend $300 with us then we put $90 in points in your account... So the next time you buy a $182 kilo you get that $90 taken off. Some of our customers spend on average about $110 per kilo....

Every single sale has discounts of up to 75% off.

OPur prices are a lot closer to industry average than not. People just assume our business model is like someone elses and they dont read or ask about use...

I mean check this out...

Everyones discount code gets firsttime buyers %10 off ADDITIONALLY on top of the 35% (kilo)!! Then That FIRST TIME BUY ALSO GETS 10% BACK IN POINTS!!!

Even if you buy a kilo withou ANY additional discount code you automatically get 45% off... 35% off and earn the 10% back....

Then get on our email list where we have CRAZY sales!!

You can pick up kilos at $100 or so when you pay attention to our emails and our info!!!

As a business owner that treats the business like a baby Im sure you can understand why IT STINKS to have people assume our pricing is expensive without understanding our logistics!!!

We cannot populate our store with EVERY sized item ... so because we have the ability to buy ANY size basically we have only 50g increments... The savings is huge when taking advantage of everything...

I can help but stress that WE GIVE 30% OF YOUR REFERRAL SALE BACK TO YOUR ACCOUNT!!!

We pay HUGEEEEEEE and actually Im pretty sure CGroom14 hase mad A HUGE referaal once... he made like $170 ( i believe he can correct me) IN ONE FREAKING SALE ... all by just giving away his silly little code!!!

So, no we arent that expensive... we actually PAY YOU!!

Not who you were talking too, but Thanks for the detailed explanation. I also read your "Read This Now" section on the website and I felt like I was going down the rabbit hole

Very very informative and good knowledge to know for anyone interested in behind the scenes stuff.

I've never tried your kratom but I like and respect the way you interact with the community here. And vendors provide life changing services, so even those who charge more then I can afford, I respect the hell out of all vendors who provide leaf for the kratom community.

And it really is not that bad price wise when you apply discounts like you detailed. Affiliate program sounds interesting. I supply Kratom to dozens of co-workers. I will have to look into your site more

Post by **brave777** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:17 pm

Re-leaf LLC wrote:
brave777 wrote:
Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?
Yes, seems like it. kratom expensive too but how much better is it then most current kratom vendors? i dont know. 250 grams 97$ and plus shipping. Just so you know. People dont have to buy it if to expensive. But just getting info in general from "read this now" on his site you can learn some new things. Good for education. Even if kratom is 1,000 bucks for 250 gram, its his sourcing and he decided to sell, no one has too buy. I personally dont think its much of that better then most popular vendors here but who knows, right? he did find this forum. Most leaf on site says its from 1.5 and 2.0 mitra %. I just wonder what you guys think about "read me now" section? Like he only try to get green color, not fermented in any way but i do have bunch red color veins and some of them fire. Wonder if i am consuming fire red salmonella?

But Brave SERIOUSLY thank you for your compliments on the info... I LOVEEEE people like you that actually READ stuff!!! Maybe you will jump on Team Re-leaf LLC one day

I did, i put order for small amount. Got $1.89 discounted. I really get confused how all that discount works. I am one of those who love simple methods. I don't have any codes to put in or anything. I am going to try and see how kratom compares to most vendors. Your "read this now" section sold me to try some. Hopefully for paying slight more, my placebo will kick in 100%.

Post by **CatfatherB** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:35 pm

Let us know how it is Brave, I gotta say, I've always heard that Re-leaf has no duds or even average leaf...there's no telling how much I've spent on hit and miss, especially in wet season?

Post by **BallzDeep9** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:52 pm

Re-leaf LLC wrote:The last 45 days I have tested 25 new sources. I am here to share some of my idiotic methods of finding great stuff. I HIGHLY ADVISE YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THIS As advice ... I figured I'd share my methods of madness. I do rely on my other testers BUT for some reason I trust myself more than others.

Good night!

Very interesting, and entertaining !! idk who's the most obsessed and dedicated kratom freek around? You or gumby?

When did Re-Leaf start up, 2016? I've heard stories about your mis-adventures on Reddit, hymnder, that crew.. like 3 years ago? I was also a mod of a Kratom-Vendors sub which got banned along with many others.. even the Cuban Cigars sub got banned lol

Then.. as you know, Facebook went on a tear and, many kratom groups are gone. Poof!

So its been a crazy two years... We began to catalog the entire USA market, back then. Every vendor is different.. but every vendor is 1 out of something like 300+. From that, how many # are testing, searching, and beating the Indo bushes for more leaf? There's a few. You, gumby, and.. a few others maybe

In another thread, someone was comparing two vendors: BB maybe the best of 2017 ? MM could be voted Best of 2019! One thing about BB, that changed recently - Transparent about sources. What do you think about that? Who's your best Indo supplier, among the big guys ?? Borneo Hale, Crumbs, VLNT.. Asia? Obviously you have imported/ tested/ sampled all the well known Indo's

You don't have to reveal sources. As my friend used to say: That's cool and understood

. but wOw 800 sources? Are those 800 separate, unique, Indo suppliers? 25 NEW sources in 45 days, how would a guy even... I mean, sure there's 100 "hustlers" as gumby would say, on Facebook. We know that!! Also lots of family relations over there.. Maybe you sample 20 hustlers & 1 turns out to be a legit small farmer, wild harvesting OG leaf.. hmm. Whats the batting average lol

I understand you're a vendor, in business to sell kratom.. Share whatever you want, please! We don't all have to agree, on every aspect of this Biz - to appreciate, what you bring to the table - Much of this is subjective. One man's Fire is, just average to another.. I came here as a database guy. Retired now, lol.. Here's some objective: Vendor Statistics - those numbers were not known, back in 2017.

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:40 am

CatfatherB wrote:Let us know how it is Brave, I gotta say, I've always heard that Re-leaf has no duds or even average leaf...there's no telling how much I've spent on hit and miss, especially in wet season?

I smile at this bro... you made my day because that is what I work so hard for... I literally have 400-500 kios I refuse to list normally... But it is just like other leaf that they sell for 90 bucks a key but I want our stuff to be held in a higher regard...

Brave... please text me your order number 2079076687. I will make sure you understand what Re-leaf LLC is all about

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:42 am

Re-leaf LLC wrote:
CatfatherB wrote:Let us know how it is Brave, I gotta say, I've always heard that Re-leaf has no duds or even average leaf...there's no telling how much I've spent on hit and miss, especially in wet season?
I smile at this bro... you made my day because that is what I work so hard for... I literally have 400-500 kios I refuse to list normally... But it is just like other leaf that they sell for 90 bucks a key but I want our stuff to be held in a higher regard...

Brave... please text me your order number 2079076687. I will make sure you understand what Re-leaf LLC is all about

Nevermind Brave I just stalked your order and I we have already talked a bit on text

Silly me bro

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:18 am

BallzDeep9 wrote:
Re-leaf LLC wrote:The last 45 days I have tested 25 new sources. I am here to share some of my idiotic methods of finding great stuff. I HIGHLY ADVISE YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THIS As advice ... I figured I'd share my methods of madness. I do rely on my other testers BUT for some reason I trust myself more than others.

Good night!
Very interesting, and entertaining !! idk who's the most obsessed and dedicated kratom freek around? You or gumby?

When did Re-Leaf start up, 2016? I've heard stories about your mis-adventures on Reddit, hymnder, that crew.. like 3 years ago? I was also a mod of a Kratom-Vendors sub which got banned along with many others.. even the Cuban Cigars sub got banned lol Then.. as you know, Facebook went on a tear and, many kratom groups are gone. Poof!

So its been a crazy two years... We began to catalog the entire USA market, back then. Every vendor is different.. but every vendor is 1 out of something like 300+. From that, how many # are testing, searching, and beating the Indo bushes for more leaf? There's a few. You, gumby, and.. a few others maybe

In another thread, someone was comparing two vendors: BB maybe the best of 2017 ? MM could be voted Best of 2019! One thing about BB, that changed recently - Transparent about sources. What do you think about that? Who's your best Indo supplier, among the big guys ?? Borneo Hale, Crumbs, VLNT.. Asia? Obviously you have imported/ tested/ sampled all the well known Indo's

You don't have to reveal sources. As my friend used to say: That's cool and understood . but wOw 800 sources? Are those 800 separate, unique, Indo suppliers? 25 NEW sources in 45 days, how would a guy even... I mean, sure there's 100 "hustlers" as gumby would say, on Facebook. We know that!! Also lots of family relations over there.. Maybe you sample 20 hustlers & 1 turns out to be a legit small farmer, wild harvesting OG leaf.. hmm. Whats the batting average lol

I understand you're a vendor, in business to sell kratom.. Share whatever you want, please! We don't all have to agree, on every aspect of this Biz - to appreciate, what you bring to the table - Much of this is subjective. One man's Fire is, just average to another.. I came here as a database guy. Retired now, lol.. Here's some objective: Vendor Statistics - those numbers were not known, back in 2017.

Oh man... yeah I admit i did some dumb things back then because I wasn't aware of how things worked on reddit... the mods were allowed to do anything in the early days of r/kratom.. THEY BANKED!!!.. I took some bad advice from an associate of mine to try and "topple the sub reddit" lol and was baited by hymnder to react..which i did... Hymnder was actually screenshotted telling people that i steal credit card info and sell it to 3rd parties... lol... That guy was something else... the entire thing got started when I witnessed him being bought off... I was literally standing in the shipping center of anothe company when a moderator was chatting with the owner about A negative post the company wanted deleted.... I was there bc I started off as sales for another kratom company... I saw them call up the mod for r/kratom and literally buy a deleted comment for a kilo of kratom... as a moron and hot head I had a team of people message over 2000 people on r/kratom telling them what I saw... Of course, nobody cared and I just look like an idiot lol. But darn it I witnessed wrong doing and I felt like I was being repressed...which I was but in the end I threatened u/hymnder with a lawsuit and then he just blacklisted me and deleted any comment mentioning my company. Funny thing is u/hmnder actually motivated me to become the best i could be... I never wanted reddit to define me... I only wanted my sourcing and service to define me... No matter what little thing popped up I pushed Re-leaf LLC forward ONLY because I sourced great product and refused to sell garbage... The key to every bit of my success is being so hands-on... I cant say it is to healthy because I stay up till 5 am most nights talking to indos.. During the week I work 12 to 5 at my office and the I come home and work about 10pm to 2 to 5 am'ish. I try to relax on the weekends... At any given time I have 100 active conversations about kratom on Facebook and I GRILL any supplier to the ninth degree. I have learned so many tricks to sniff out fake and low-quality peddlers.... This past 3 months I have been hitting about 3 out of 5 big batches... being absolute flame.... i was hitting for about 1 in 5 for a couple years... But right now I am zinging bro... I hate to sound egotistical but my methods I use are pretty slick and I am taking advantage of my companies reputation... The indos know me as an honest dude who asks to many questions but pays good money for small batches and i pa up front... Which ocassionally I do get burnt for G's but hey.... it is what it is... Most the indos literally want me to give them a passing grade... they know I search constantly so this past half year I think I am really getting their best. I can never find big 100 kilo batches that are smokers... but Lately I have found many... Ive even found a couple 200+ kilo batches that are fire... I have one very large wholesale account trying to buy me out actually. they want me to source and co-pack for them... I think I just convinced them to let me keep Re-leaf LLC as a separate entity and just process for them as an additional business.That would RAISE the qualit of re-leaf AGAIn because my focus would be on my baby... re-leaf llc....Then my new focus would be to break the belief about headshop kratom being bad. It is logistically hard to break those walls down...I am negotiating back and forth because I need to address concerns about supply, demand and price.... If the supply ever runs low then we will have to cease product sales until we catch inventory up because I refuse to sell crap... The problem is currently the possibility of not having a product. It is damn near impossible for anyone to provide 1000 stores with premium kratom... I say damn near.... because i am about 6 months from having the network in place to do so.

As for the best vendors.... I like the people that can only produce 100-500 kilos a motnh...I find anyone who says they can get TONS of premium usually is BS. I have met a couple people who have about 5000 kilos of premium but that is rare.... they are also one shipment from hurting you... a lot of people will say yes to everything... then they go to a neighbouring plantation and bu cheap leaf to send to you.... That is the worst... then I would be in a pickle... people say "just make extract with it" but then why...? Why would I want to hurt my customer base... Tolerance would be thrown off and my base would have to deal with extract blasting away their sensitivity... Id rather just lose thousands then sell junk product as extract... It seriously sucks and I contemplate back and forth often but I just cant bring myself to selling extract.... I might one day sell it to headshops but definitely not my customer base...screw that...

I am getting tired... Im rambling and lll be back tomorrow to chat it up again.... Brave I will throw you some good stuff my friend... just the norm for a re-leaf llc order

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:28 am

Oh... I forgot... when I said 800 batches I'm about at 150 different suppliers tested. I have a very specific method that works well.... my questions I ask weed out the wanna bees now. I used to waste my time with some folks now I have my favorite questions.

I love to ask "Who picks the leaves".

Then i follow with "What method of picking do they use?"

"DO they premium select or rape the whole tree"

"DO you separate the stem?"

"How do you dry"

"How many people that has purchased over 40 kilos has reordered from you"

"How tall is the tree"

"HOW old us it"

You can tell by the age and length if they over harvest.... a unmolested 2 year old tree can grow 10 meters tall... trees that are over harvested will be shorter.

You also never want to see completely naked trees because that means there are young leaves mixed with old leaves.

Many little tricks actually

Post by **BluePhantom** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:53 am

Well, you've peaked my curiosity so I've placed a small order. Looking forward to trying out your leaf

Post by **Cgroom14** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:44 pm

Re-leaf definitely has the discounts and an epic referral program. You will no doubt get the best quality Kratom and it’s worth the few extra bucks for the quality control. Y’all will be thankful to have another reliable vendor to purchase from.

And Joe is correct, From 2 referrals I had over $200 in rewards points to spend on Kratom! I totally forgot I had those points until now actually lol, I just made my order!! Thanks Joe!

Use this code below at Re-leaf to get 10% off your order!
GRA9ICHSBR

Post by **FartBlaster** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:24 pm

Why make a site with such a ludicrous and confusing % and sales why not just have a price without a bunch of convoluted bs. Seems easier for all parties

Post by **herbalhippie** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:06 pm

FartBlaster wrote:Why make a site with such a ludicrous and confusing % and sales why not just have a price without a bunch of convoluted bs. Seems easier for all parties

Agreed.

And if you're advertising, which is what this all looks like, then it needs to be done in the Vendor Listing forum.

Post by **e_poison** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:58 pm

Yeah, advertising and self-promotion is NOT allowed in the consumer general discussion forum unless you're a site sponsor and keep your ads to your regulated pre-approved post. This thread is starting to tread into advertising/promotion territory, so I'm moving this post to the vendor listing board where advertising freely is allowed. Thanks for understanding!

Additionally, the shilling accusations were removed from this thread. Please see rule #1 of the forum. Accusations of shilling are strictly forbidden and posts that are accusatory will be removed.

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:33 am

FartBlaster wrote:Why make a site with such a ludicrous and confusing % and sales why not just have a price without a bunch of convoluted bs. Seems easier for all parties

herbalhippie wrote:
FartBlaster wrote:Why make a site with such a ludicrous and confusing % and sales why not just have a price without a bunch of convoluted bs. Seems easier for all parties
Agreed.

And if you're advertising, which is what this all looks like, then it needs to be done in the Vendor Listing forum.

.

There are a lot of logistical reasons I choose to have it set up like that.... honestly explaining to you would be too much typing.... but most customers absolutely love getting paid 30% and earning 10% back and reading about our discounts....its always refreshing to see the positive things people say about it....as for the logistics I'm not sure you would understand the math part (about margins and estore listings...its complicated by text... you can call me) because it seems percentages are pretty tough for those who dont "get it".

It really isn't confusing for most people. Its very beneficial. It's amazing to see such great opinions on here though. Very motivating. Like I said, There are many beneficial reasons I have my business model the way it is.

On a side note....One of the best ways to prevent customers that dont read or care about my company is to have simple directions. It's like a repellent to the nightmare people. Not speaking about anyone on here though! It seems to keep away the customers that aren't respectful and over bearing. I absolutely love that side effect . To be honest I don't really like doing business with someone like that.... it's part of the reason I have such great digital footprints. I do respect them. But I just wouldn't want to do business with them.... I definitely wish them the best and will pray them if they ever wanted. Or I can even help them understand certain bible questions (on a personal note) but as for jumping into a business relationship with a person who is hyper critical over a very successful business model .... seems like I'd rather give that person a referral to one if my friends companies. I actually always send customers to COB. lol.

This post was also not an advertisement...

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:31 am

These are my losses or expenses. Regardless of what business you have it would be interesting to see your costs...I think this will help people understand why costs can differ from business to business.

$1200 - sifter machines
$1200 - large portionors 10g-1000g
$600 - Small portionors 1g-200g
$800 - grinder machine
$3000 miscellaneous containers, bottles, buckets and tubes
$800 - mixer
$200 - hand held mixer
$1200 - vac sealer
$2000 new computers
$300 security camera annual
$2000 boxes and pallets
$2500 packages
$1600 ink
$10000 ecoli salmonella fungi metal tests and equipment
$1200 labels
$2500 shelves and bins
$1000 steel tables
$16000 - rent
$48,1000 EXPENDITURES

MSRP loss on tossed or not received product numerous issues
$41400 product contamination issues 230 keys
$25400 bad product wont list 140 keys
$10,800 border confiscation 60 keys
$10800 stolen by non shipper 60 keys
$7000 unpaid invoice 125 CBD bottles

$95,400 in Product LOSSES

Now its TAX TIME!!!

Please nobody post any advertisements on this listing.

This info is something people should know when navigating online. Its very important info to those folks who are interested in the details.

Many places have different overheads.

I'm interested in seeing anyone else's... this would be awesome if we could get some other expenses.... EVEN any business... I'm curiousas to your overhead.... please dont mention business names or ads.

Thanks!

Post by **CatfatherB** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:43 pm

Hey Joe, I sent you a p.m.

Post by **brave777** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:45 pm

Joe, i did not expect to get my order today, as some people getting drunk for new years i will be dipping my nose into your samples, that's for sure. I had High-Class #102 2grams. I didn't think i would feel anything because i already had 2 doses. Just from 2 grams, It feels like its full spectrum but nice relax and energy feel with a buzz head. I decided to go strait up for the best sample. I think this is well worth the money, quality is here for sure. Caution, very potent! And i am not just saying it. As i sit and type, when i turned to look at the clock, i get spins. Now i am not sure if its enhanced or not? One thing for sure it does its job very well. As you know i was not able to complete the payment, not sure if you noticed or not? I feel guilty because i pay for everything. But if its a mistake, please look over. I rather pay instead of feeling guilty. I also got a bunch of sample with what i wanted to try. Here some pics..

10 cards come with my order. Thank you, i ll be sure to pass them out..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

more info on the back side of paper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My go to is, hot water, dumped 2 grams, mix very well, add raw milk and mix again, when i finished cup, everything was gone, zero sludge. Thats herbal-salvation spoon hiding behind the card. I been abusing it for a long time, i love that it has 2 grams one side and 6 grams the other. It be nice if every vendor sold something like that with their own logo name.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

got over 300 grams of kratom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now i have to say, the new approach is well worth, i think its well thought of. We get something out of it as well, which vendor does that? I have not tried any other samples but i am digging the high-class #102. What i like a lot is that it has batch numbers with no fancy names.. how cool? If the high class not enhanced then in my eyes its some top of the line kratom i ever tried. "A little go's a long way" should be the new slogan for this type of stuff. I am sure we wasted a lot of money on sale kilo's that we will never use, if you had to re-do it, do it right and spend that extra on something that you will enjoy for life. This review specifically for High-Class 102#.

Post by **CatfatherB** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:50 pm

Brave you may have just unknowingly read my mind, I already p.m.'d Joe!! Lol, I was just looking at the "high class" menu!! All I was missing was your feedback brother!!

Post by **brave777** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:00 pm

CatfatherB wrote:Brave you may have just unknowingly read my mind, I already p.m.'d Joe!! Lol, I was just looking at the "high class" menu!! All I was missing was your feedback brother!!

No problem, glad i can be of help.. You wont regret it. High Class SCREAMS FIRE

Post by **BallzDeep9** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:22 pm

Re-leaf LLC wrote:This info is something people should know when navigating online. Its very important info to those folks who are interested in the details ... Many places have different overheads.

I'm interested in seeing anyone else's... this would be awesome if we could get some other expenses....

haha There you go again, putting your self out there

WHY is this important, or even relevant, to a Consumer?

Kudos to you for being up-front about your business... Goes without saying, the Kratom Vendor Business is - all over the place. The 400+ Online USA vendors run a huge variety of business models - For many, it's a very very LOW investment/ High profit business. I think there's room for everyone, and Thank You for posting.

We've got Kratom Drug Labs in Florida, and in Texas.. with access to some pretty high dollar equipment. What is required, to manufacture those Retail bottles of MMK45 extract? or O.P.M.S. just to pick well known examples.. Many others.

On the other end.. How about vendors who import and sell, ONLY raw, bulk, natural, Indo Kratom powder? Why would a $1200 Sifter machine or $1200 Portioner machine be even necessary ?? Your company Re-Leaf has a history of selling "vendor blends" ? Great! You are manufacturing a product.

But, I don't WANT a manufactured blend!! I don't want goofy "Purple Unicorn" made by a USA company... I ONLY want the Indo product, Green Jong Kong, or Red Aceh... We CAN verify and trust, many vendors import, direct from Jong Kong or Aceh. Now... are those small vendors "middle men" ?? Sure. What is their cost, compared to yours? Much much lower. What is their PRICE compared to yours? Much much lower....

Kratom is not an American product - I only want the Indonesian product!

Unfortunately, The Way of American business, is for BIG companies to crush the little guy.. Once a Monopoly is established - BOOM prices go up, and the Consumer always gets screwed!! Good ole' Vulture Capitalism.. I'm not trying to start a political debate. We could discuss many aspects of this. Maybe let's agree that free markets are best? Does kratom really NEED the AKA, or State politics, to "Regulate" kratom and give ALL the business to a few companies? Well.... that's what may happen in 2020

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:21 am

BallzDeep9 wrote:
Re-leaf LLC wrote:This info is something people should know when navigating online. Its very important info to those folks who are interested in the details ... Many places have different overheads.

I'm interested in seeing anyone else's... this would be awesome if we could get some other expenses....
haha There you go again, putting your self out there WHY is this important, or even relevant, to a Consumer?

Kudos to you for being up-front about your business... Goes without saying, the Kratom Vendor Business is - all over the place. The 400+ Online USA vendors run a huge variety of business models - For many, it's a very very LOW investment/ High profit business. I think there's room for everyone, and Thank You for posting.

We've got Kratom Drug Labs in Florida, and in Texas.. with access to some pretty high dollar equipment. What is required, to manufacture those Retail bottles of MMK45 extract? or O.P.M.S. just to pick well known examples.. Many others.

On the other end.. How about vendors who import and sell, ONLY raw, bulk, natural, Indo Kratom powder? Why would a $1200 Sifter machine or $1200 Portioner machine be even necessary ?? Your company Re-Leaf has a history of selling "vendor blends" ? Great! You are manufacturing a product.

But, I don't WANT a manufactured blend!! I don't want goofy "Purple Unicorn" made by a USA company... I ONLY want the Indo product, Green Jong Kong, or Red Aceh... We CAN verify and trust, many vendors import, direct from Jong Kong or Aceh. Now... are those small vendors "middle men" ?? Sure. What is their cost, compared to yours? Much much lower. What is their PRICE compared to yours? Much much lower.... Kratom is not an American product - I only want the Indonesian product!

Unfortunately, The Way of American business, is for BIG companies to crush the little guy.. Once a Monopoly is established - BOOM prices go up, and the Consumer always gets screwed!! Good ole' Vulture Capitalism.. I'm not trying to start a political debate. We could discuss many aspects of this. Maybe let's agree that free markets are best? Does kratom really NEED the AKA, or State politics, to "Regulate" kratom and give ALL the business to a few companies? Well.... that's what may happen in 2020

I don't buy from Americans I only buy from Indonesians. I currently have like 100 pure strains... There is not one vendor that does what I do bro... some that do it close... but just like tonight for instance... I spoke 3 hours online... found out about a new wild hunter in central Kali (most are in hulu)... I found out about his trees and who picks them and I talk multiple times and have many ordering techniques....

The product that people get reflects the effort the establishment goes to produce for them as well as the product...

Like another instance.... I have buyers that whe I started was ecstatic about hitting on 5 of 15 products now those same friends are sending me texts about them hitting on 15 of 15 and so on... i can show you th texts if you want (hmu)

I am obsessed with getting better... the vendors that you speak of deserve there respect but just like any job I ever had... or even when I was determined to win class president.... or even when I sold the most candy bars for little league... I am always finding ways to do better and bigger...

WARNING I AM ABOUT TO HAVE A DOUCHE BAG STATEMENT BUT TRUE: Nobody you know in this forum orders as many different Indonesian leaves then I do.... I dont and havent ordered from America... I only sell Global products straight from foreign lands... Ive tried almost 860 harvests from Indo/Malyasian/Thai/Java/Papua/Aceh/Sulawesi/ New guinea/ etc... I literally spend hours contacting people in different countries until wee hours of the night... So when you say I have a history of selling vendors blends I am very leary of where that info came from

it saddens me... I am obsessed with this leaf and only send GUARANTEED quality. I have a panel of testers and if they dont ALL love the leaf I shelve it and throw it out. Seriously ... THAT IS WHY I CHARGE WHAT I CHARGE BRO... I do things differently and many people that pay attention to my details will confirm this. I am one weird cat BUTTT i produce consistent quality and I am here for my customers... I spend hours a month on the phone telling people how to get off the stuff...because I care about people first and kratom second.... Its my passion holmes... I truly love sourcing and LOVE to talk to people.

ANOTHER DOUCHEY DISCLAMERL: I have purchased from more Indonesian Vendors in the last 6 months that any two vendors you know ... I am not trying to be egotistical but I am being serious... I just sent like 20 wires at the bank the other day... that is up to $800 just in wire fee's for one day purchase... I intake anywhere from 20-50 shipments a month from Indo buyers... This week alone I sent out for 20 kilo "samples" I buy 20 kilos of only the most popular and if it is good I exponentially increase my order... i have a couple methods i will keep to myself bc it is seriously a killer way to source but bro... I truly do have some killer leaf because I SCOUR THE WORLD BROSKI!!! I work until my eyes go red EVERY night... till 2-5 am all the time. No americans... Americans buy from me... I got a vendor that pays $3400 for 30 kilos every month. Why? Because they bought from 30 other people and never had so much consistency... because i refuse to ship out crap... most people will make "samplers" and slip in 3 or 4 losers just to get rid of them... not me... I just eat the cost. I care nothing about cost because I fix my margins... my customers havent gone anywhere and I have grown for 3 years.... And i have man haters bc of my unique model... it is true but that still hasnt stopped the train... most haters will never buy from me because of my price and that is my greatest asset. Those people are usually impossible to please and some people will buy product just to leave negative review regardless of the product... This happens more often than not. I know comptetion that does this regularly lol... its horrible... I know about 15 times someone has ratted on payment processors... it sickkkkkkkkk... I got canned 3 times by the same person... And the IP address showed it every time lol... oh well... thats why im not cc... screw that crap. E-eck is just as easy after the first purchase.... And I LOVE crypto... so easy to send. But way to wild in pricing... lol

I dont sell vendor blends? As in others products? I am not sure if you are familiar with my model.. i sell blends because they are the most popular with customers because they have silly little names like "Calm Enurgie" and "Dream x 2" these things take the guess work.... I have never once sold anyone else's product in my existence so "Vendor Blends" is just a nother misinformation campaign probably set forth by a competitor... I even had a competitor go on YouTube and pretend that I was "s" wording... there are some crazy folks out there... lol.. I am unsure of what you think my model is..

The sifters I use for any product that I deem needs to be run through for finer powder... it enhances the product by 5-10% just by taking out the stem fibers. If i ran through every product I would upgrade every product UNLESS it is a nano product..

My portioners are used to pack my own product...

There is nobody on this earth that stalks Global vendors like me and my interrogation of the seller is on another level...

So the small portioners I portion my 50g bags... all my bags are 50gs and that why I have the discount system the way i do... we have two walls full of bins (like 1000) that hold 30 50g packages and I refill them to fill orders... the packers use the small portioners to stock the 50g bags.... I use the large portion machines to fill large orders... I have a head shop that literally raises his own pay because I provide a service that others dont I legit dont send out bad volume product... his 6 stores sell about 1 ton of my product every month... he white labels it too... I dont care i know it will sell and he passes up $40 crap that he has already purchase many times to spend $60 on my product ... thats 1 ton for $60 a pop.... The avrage product price domestically for 1 ton is $40.... That is where i use the large portion machines... i portions 12 kilos every minute.... they go from portion machine to vac sealer and hit some mean strides to knock out large orders.... he pays me that for a reason and he is talking with his wholesaler to open me up to 1000 stores but I cannot handle all those stores for quality... I can only provide about 5 tons of PREMIUM product that i check every 20 kilos of (no lie). I have about 30-40 regular sellers and about 10-20 other seasonal or batch dependent sellers....

I am trying to avoid being "that guy" by telling you the truth... but there is a reason why customers spend $120-$180/kilo with me.... I hand pick their orders and stand behind my slections and help them if anything happens... I provide peace of mind and quality to them... I'm sure you have seen some of my loyal people pop up here and there... I probably have 300 customers that ARE INSANELY experienced that have purchased from everyone under the sun but they settled on me.... I have about 3500 total customers but about 10% of them ARE OLD SCHOOL KRATOM GANGSTERS and that is who i listen to about my product. They make me very happy because they right my ship if it is ever headed the wrong way...

Bro... I actually love your posts so dont take my passion as disrespect but i get excited and come on broski.... i think you have mistaken my business model... I have about 100 open messages/negotiations right now with foreign vendors.

Oh and those darn lab tests... they are so pointless.... everyone uses them as lies and represents different batches with them... and the dumb alk tests are pointless.... one tree can be harvested 6 times in one day... lets say its a 80 year old tree that yields 100 kilos and is huge... lets say they pick 20 kilos of premium large leaves from the bottom... then the pick young leaves from the bottom.. then they get to the top and pick premium large leaf 20 kilos from the top and then they slect small leaves from the top.. then the last 20 they just pick everything else.... They take those back and ONLY IF those 5 batches are dried in the same manner they will produce 5 different alk values!!! And guess what... lets say they dry half of each the 5 batches from that one tree outside and half the batches inside... now they have 10 different alk values... thats just from one tree!!! The variables from growing and processing are value to crazy to properly lsit alk values... lab tests are purely for marketing purposes and ONLY for in house quality control checking. Contamination lab tets are a joke... so many vendors buy tons and only have one lab contamination test... what the heck lol... gross!!! One test for tons of products... that is the type of testing represented by the A-A and their little program

And about the A_A... dont get me started lol... Me and the A_A's lawyer are on a first name basis LOLOLO... there is a lot im sure you would love to know....

This is not an ad its just getting Ballzdeep with my homie so DONT BUY MY PRODUCT please.... I just want to freely talk..

And last but not east this info is extremely valuable I wouldve killed for this info even when I didnt vend... I am a sucker for stats... that is why I am so obsessed with sourcing GLOBAL product...

I will be the first American Premium Wholesaler by 2021. My brand will be known for only premium product because I dont like anything else...

Anyhow I am going ham on this reply... I love ya bro and hope you dig my passion... but darnit my vendor blends are just Indo Pure starins that I personally mix... hence the mixer i have....

<3

DISCLAIMER this is not an ad Please go purchase from the sponsors on here ... I am happy with my life but I just need friends who let me be my big mouth stupid Christ loving self

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:35 am

See this:

"But, I don't WANT a manufactured blend!! I don't want goofy "Purple Unicorn" made by a USA company... I ONLY want the Indo product, Green Jong Kong, or Red Aceh... We CAN verify and trust, many vendors import, direct from Jong Kong or Aceh. Now... are those small vendors "middle men" ?? Sure. What is their cost, compared to yours? Much much lower. What is their PRICE compared to yours? Much much lower....

Kratom is not an American product - I only want the Indonesian product!"

This is what is getting me confused? I am known for sourcing only from Indonesia. I am not sure what ":mrgreen: is not mine... you are on the wrong website bud...

And ask my customers each customer gets their own CUSTOM blend NAMED after them from a blend made by my wife straight from INDO pure strains... As a favor to me and because I love your posts I ask that after you research my company you retract what you said lol.... I am so confused as to where you got the info that I sell American products?

Check out my 5 day order form... i missed my bank today I usually finish my payments on saturday but i gotta go monday... check out those names... that is all INDOS... all in a 5 day span... you show

I am afraid that you are on the wrong website... I only sell custom blended products from Indonesia Pure products... you saying that above brings me to tears lolo bro call me up and tell me where you heard i only sell american product?!?!?!

DISCLAIMER this is not an ad Please go purchase from the sponsors on here ... I am happy with my life but I just need friends who let me be my big mouth stupid Christ loving self

Post by **Re-leaf LLC** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:55 am

Those expenses though are close to my heart... it gets so hard to work so hard and have people not understand what I do,,, when they look...oh they figure it out and they love it..... it is trying to show people WHY my prices are a little higher... but my incenitves have my hardcore people getting cheaper prices than offered on here.. people that know how to work my system get kilos for like $30.. yep $30... It happens whne someone knows my loyatly and rewards system. look at my product losses too... that is because I suck?...trust me... i try hard... these are things that I have to do to stand out.... I lose product because I am picky...is it just that other vendors dont have the problems i have?? wrong... they just sell all the product. People look at my losses and someone outside of the vending industry will look and be like "This guy needs to make better choices" but nope... i am seriously HARDOCRE selective and if my testers don't like the product or there is quality control issues i will toss it out... My digital footprints are gold to me... that is why I just went ham on this passionate triple posting reply...

and the crazy thing is no matter what most vendors...most of them only have 1 or 2 sources...some maybe 4 to 6 but most just order regularly... nobody orders from 30-50 people WITH EXTREME detail... they order with out following the weather and without questioning everything... I ask nine million questions every order even if i order from the same dude 30 times. Most others will be like "alright Indra its time for my regular" and they just go about their business... but I make sure EVERY vendor knows that I will stop buying from them immediately and go right to the person the dislike and buy from them ( i am very close with them so I know them well lol) Actually 5 of my best friend are indonesian... my best friends in the world arent even american....

I make my sellers show me on the map where they harvest from and I follow the weather forecast... i legit ask for them to harvest on the 3rd dry day and only in the morning. Many annoying details to follow...I never want my product to be drying outside in the sun for more than 3 hours, I always want a fan inside the drying facility if indoors and I request a space heater if possible WITH SPECIFIC temperature (that only I know) and if possible I want the salesman to make sure the picker kNOWS it is my turn to purchase... I ANNOY them so much and guess what I pay up front and I pay good money. I am not afraid to spend extra because I am now looked at as the vendor Indos want to sell to... Ask your vendor friends to ask their indo suppliers if they know me... they probably sold to me or heard about me... I have over 1500 people in my contact list for kratom over 3 years of sourcing... none of them are American. I sell to anyone... I sell any price... i sell any quality... ACCEPT bad lol.... Seriously though Im like super sad that people think I source from America?!... That is a darn shame... the info on my website will show you different...

once again PLEASE dont buy from me this is not an ad... I am simply chatting with my broski... that unfairly

called me out on something untrue!!!!! I still love you Ballz... I dont love your ballz though that is weird... but I love Ballzdeep.. as a christian I must disclaim that is a screenname and Im sure he is talking about soccer balls in a goal or something

DISCLAIMER this is not an ad Please go purchase from the sponsors on here ... I am happy with my life but I just need friends who let me be my big mouth stupid Christ loving self

Post by **CatfatherB** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:20 am

Now THAT was an epic read, I woke up at 2:00 in the morning cuz I couldn't go back to sleep, started reading, dosed! Made coffee and I'm just finishing this thread, wide awake now!!

I know there are some big changes in the new year coming for this site and I'd like to propose a feature called "Ask an insider" weve, got Gumby, Joe and maybe Shaun from Fused Flora...many more, maybe a list of questions could be used as a template or just do it freestyle?

I love good reads like this...you ain't gonna get an uncensored exchange like this on any other kratom forum..I guarantee that!! Good job Joe and Ballz...can't wait for more!!

Post by **RumRunner** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:52 pm

Re-leaf LLC wrote:
brave777 wrote:
Gopherdude wrote:I'm not sure what's going on here? Is this guy a vendor?

We have automatic discounts that apply to your cart. So $280kilo changes to $182 in your cart. THEN on top of that we have MANY discount codes... So at an average of 15% you would take an ADDITIONAL 15% off which makes it 155$ THEN you earn BACK 10% of your purchase

Every single sale has discounts of up to 75% off.

Everyones discount code gets firsttime buyers %10 off ADDITIONALLY on top of the 35% (kilo)!! Then That FIRST TIME BUY ALSO GETS 10% BACK IN POINTS!!!

So, no we arent that expensive... we actually PAY YOU!!

Sounds like how my wife shops at Kohl’s.

Post by **Zeniotuten** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:21 pm

I figured it wouldnt take long for joe to show up on the shores of doublemm.. The fact is....he is a egotistical kratom maniac...as so many of us are..some have more funds to throw at it and others dont. Cant knock him for his methods. Ive dealt with him for some years now and he is honest. So many ppl have there own expectations when dealing with kratom and or kratom vendors. Truth is...theres so much more going on in the back ground. Than we could ever imagine. Joe is about that life.. Dont knock it until you try it...lol. Still ... Ego is a huge monster. At least he is on our side of this battle to keep our leaf with us... ONE MANS TREASURE IS ANOTHER MANS TRASH. Its just how it is. Ive sourced from almost every vendor there is..but i do still have my boutique vendor..THANKS JOE!

Post by **BallzDeep9** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:56 pm

Zeniotuten wrote:Ego is a huge monster. At least he is on our side of this battle to keep our leaf with us... !

Yeah. Zenio your posts are not frequent but carry some gravitas... For me, the sign-up including Facebook requirement BS plus high prices, were a non starter. Let the free market rule! I found plenty of Top Shelf kratom elsewhere, at half the price.. But if others want to support that, be my guest... He does have, a unique website! I am glad he's here on MM - 2020 looks like we'll need Joe and all Independent vendors to fight back against the horrible "State Regulation", being proposed by AKA and their clique of head-shop drug makers. Joe has already spoken out on this subject. I'm sure very soon.. there will be more discussion

Post by **fusedflora** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:06 pm

I think it's awesome you're sharing the costs, you've definitely given me some ideas of things I may not have asked to the accountant about. I'll try to post mine as I get them back.

Like Cat, I enjoyed reading this. Though, I would disagree a bit and say that ordering from so many vendors isn't really a measure of sourcing. I've seen approaches like this, spending thousands trying samples and different vendors that has been put to shame by someone traveling to Indonesia and building an incredible relationship with a farmer and getting some exclusive stuff. Though I can't say that guy is me, I take a very similar approach as you do. I think habitual sourcing trips to Indonesia may be more beneficial and more cost effective.

In my experience, I deal with no less than 50-60 new suppliers a month and another 10-12 farmers. I think a lot of good suppliers do. Like you, and I'm sure a lot of us on here, I ask a lot of questions and filter samples based on how they answer, their processes, original strains etc.... I spend a lot of time chatting and traveling to visit the farms, contacts, and video chatting to see it myself. I luckily work and hang out with native Malaysian/Thai speakers that even help. Though I may not ask as detailed as yours, the questioning will roughly leave me with maybe 5-6 suppliers/farmers to try a month. Even with a panel of testers, it's a challenge to have the time to try that many and maintain QA/QC of the ones I actually carry, allowing for tolerance breaks and natural lost doses (illness/surgeries etc.) for myself or the testers. It's likely the biggest challenge I have with this method. Again, I largely take the same approach you do.

If you’re ordering that many samples from that many vendors a week, how do you have time to try it all and what you order regularly? I like gumby's approach to sending samples and allowing masses to be the test beds, do you use a similar process as well?

If this is two professionals sharing, I could offer an observation - I think if you're finding that many new ones to try (spending that much time questioning) and spending that much ordering, perhaps the questioning is unnecessary, as it doesn't seem to be filtering that many and is using a lot of time.

Post by **Zeniotuten** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:05 pm

Lmao.. I QUIT....